[tig] RE: Tig digest, Vol 1 #989 - 11 msgs

Bob Corti bcorti
Fri Aug 20 20:15:36 BST 2004


Cineworks in Miami is using a Vialta

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Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 3:01 PM
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Subject: Tig digest, Vol 1 #989 - 11 msgs


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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: HD telecined TV shows (Marc Wielage)
   2. Re: HD telecined TV shows and film data (Rob Lingelbach)
   3. Re: HD telecined TV shows (Marc Wielage)
   4. Re: HD telecined TV shows (Adrian Thomas)
   5. Re: HD telecined TV shows (Dick Hobbs)
   6. Re: HD telecined TV shows (Adrian Thomas)
   7. Re: HD telecined TV shows (Dick Hobbs)
   8. Sony Vialta (Antony Olivier)
   9. Re: HD telecined TV shows (Patrick Howley)
  10. Re: HD telecined TV shows (eriku at flyingspot.com)
  11. Re: Sony Vialta (Emory Cohen)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:54:26 -0700
Subject: Re: [tig] HD telecined TV shows
From: Marc Wielage <mfw at musictrax.com>
To: Ole Alstrup <alstrup at yahoo.com>, TIG <tig at snowball.calarts.edu>

On 8/19/04 5:27 AM, "Ole Alstrup" <alstrup at yahoo.com> wrote on the TIG List:

> I wanted to ask the people in the telecine community
> if there are any television series/shows, either
> classic or contemporary, that has been telecined in HD
> formats? I am doing a survey on behalf of a classic tv
> series fandom network.
>--------------------------------snip----------------------------------<

The main company I see that's involved in this is Mark Cuban's HD Net.  So
far, I believe they're airing CHARLIE'S ANGELS and HOGAN'S HEROES, as well
as one I worked on not too long ago, ANDY RICHTER CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE.
Sony is in the process of re-transferring SEINFELD for HD as well, but I
don't know if or when it's aired.  Paramount has also re-transferred all the
CHEERS episodes in HD, but I don't know when those will air.  And all the
old B&W episodes of TWILIGHT ZONE are in the process of being transferred to
HD.

You could probably check HD Net's webpage and find out how many other
episodic shows like this are being aired in HD.  Note that there's an
ongoing controversy as to which aspect ratio in which the show should be
aired.  Since native HD is 16x9 (approx. 1.77), older TV shows aired in that
aspect ratio will lose part of the top and/or bottom of the image.  If they
were aired as they were shot, in 4x3 (1.33), the sides would have to be
matted, which is unacceptable for many (if not most) HD services.

This is not a problem for newer shows shot in 3-perf Super 35mm or Super
16mm, since those formats are tailor-made for 16x9.  But with older 4-perf
4x3 shows, it's a tricky situation.

--Marc Wielage
  LA colorist-at-large





--__--__--

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:44:58 -0700
From: Rob Lingelbach <rob at calarts.edu>
To: Telecine Internet Group <tig at colorist.org>
Subject: Re: [tig] HD telecined TV shows and film data

On Thu, Aug 19, 2004 at 05:16:01PM -0400, john.pytlak at kodak.com wrote:

> How do you feel "The Honeymooners" kinescopes look today?

amazingly and interestingly artistic!  it helps that the performances
were theatrically prodigious.

> But, if you are interested in the long
> term value of a special motion picture property to be shot today, history
> suggests that film has significant advantages.

has there been any work done recently on the idea discussed by a few
of our colleagues (Jim Fancher for one) regarding the use of film as a
data archive medium?  where the frames contain not images per se but
encoded representations, which given the proven durability of film,
can be used as archives 100 years hence?

-Rob

--
Rob Lingelbach
tig founder, coadmin
http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html
Key fingerprint = 75DC F155 BACB 7165 745E  1594 F359 976F 7DA8 8493
Public key avaialable on pgp.mit.edu




--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 05:04:36 -0700
Subject: Re: [tig] HD telecined TV shows
From: Marc Wielage <mfw at musictrax.com>
To: Adrian Thomas <adrian at autotv.co.uk>, TIG <tig at snowball.calarts.edu>

On 8/20/04 2:16 AM, "Adrian Thomas" <adrian at autotv.co.uk> wrote:

> Unacceptable how? We're currently enjoying the Athens Olympics in
> 'pillarbox' in the UK - I still remember seeing the French winter games
> in glorious HD-MAC. How far we've come, eh?
>--------------------------------snip----------------------------------<

Odd.  We're seeing NBC's HD coverage of the Summer Olympics on this side of
the pond in full-frame 16x9, no mattes.  I wonder where your HD feed is
coming from for the U.K.?

The specific decision on aspect ratios is one from the distributors, not
from the post houses or by colorists.  I know that HD Net is running
CHARLIE'S ANGELS and HOGAN'S HEROES in 16x9, but there's a little teeny
black matte on the extreme left and right.  I wouldn't say it's 14x9, but
there's definitely something going on.

You can contact Mark Cuban of HD Net at mark at hd.net if you want to ask him
about their choice for aspect ratios.  (The address is on their webpage at
http://www.hd.net on the web.)

--Marc Wielage
  LA colorist-at-large





--__--__--

Message: 4
Cc: tig at tig.colorist.org
From: Adrian Thomas <adrian at autotv.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [tig] HD telecined TV shows
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 14:27:10 +0100
To: Marc Wielage <mfw at musictrax.com>


On 20 Aug 2004, at 13:04, Marc Wielage wrote:
>
> Odd.  We're seeing NBC's HD coverage of the Summer Olympics on this
> side of
> the pond in full-frame 16x9, no mattes.  I wonder where your HD feed is
> coming from for the U.K.?
>

Ooh, now that really is intriguing. Do you get all the 'supermotion'
instant playbacks that we're getting on the 4:3/50i feed? I was
watching the synchronised diving the other day and was marvelling at
the sheer number of different TV cameras directly opposite the divers.
There were at least SIX in effectively the same position - three per
diver! If one was HD (60i, presumably) one 4:3/50i and one supermotion,
that would account for it, but I'd still imagine that they couldn't do
this treble for every camera position - what's the HD presentation
like, is it pretty static?

> The specific decision on aspect ratios is one from the distributors,
> not
> from the post houses or by colorists.  I know that HD Net is running
> CHARLIE'S ANGELS and HOGAN'S HEROES in 16x9, but there's a little teeny
> black matte on the extreme left and right.  I wouldn't say it's 14x9,
> but
> there's definitely something going on.
>

The thing is, with 14:9 you almost lose the matting in overscan anyway,
which is why such aostensibly bad theory works so well in (CRT)
practice.

> You can contact Mark Cuban of HD Net at mark at hd.net if you want to ask
> him
> about their choice for aspect ratios.  (The address is on their
> webpage at
> http://www.hd.net on the web.)
>

I might just do that, as we're supposedly going to be offered some
(almost certainly American flavoured) HD next year from our friends at
Sky.

--
Adrian Thomas
AUTOMATIC TELEVISION
LONDON WC2N 4DU
www.autotv.co.uk
+44 (0) 20 7240 2073
--




--__--__--

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:08:11 +0100
Subject: Re: [tig] HD telecined TV shows
From: Dick Hobbs <dick at hobbsonline.tv>
To: TIG <tig at tig.colorist.org>

A lot of the HD coverage of the Olympics uses Thomson cameras, which provide
a simultaneous standard definition output, so you should not need co-sited
cameras.

Also there is now a super-ish slo mo HD camera, again from Thomson, and as
far as I know all the ones ever built are in Athens at the moment. This
shoots at double frame rate (the SD version works at triple frame rates).

And while we are this far off topic, there is a new system in the UK which
uses a NAC Tornado camera connected to a Quantel eQ. This shoots 720p at
1000 frames a second, for one-fortieth realtime super slo-mo. It's great on
the cricket.

Dick



***************************

Dick Hobbs
Freelance writer and consultant on television and film technology
+44 1435 830988
dick at hobbsonline.tv





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--__--__--

Message: 6
Cc: TIG <tig at tig.colorist.org>
From: Adrian Thomas <adrian at autotv.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [tig] HD telecined TV shows
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:53:36 +0100
To: Dick Hobbs <dick at hobbsonline.tv>


On 20 Aug 2004, at 15:08, Dick Hobbs wrote:

> A lot of the HD coverage of the Olympics uses Thomson cameras, which
> provide
> a simultaneous standard definition output, so you should not need
> co-sited
> cameras.

Great info, but the coverage I'm seeing via the BBC is definitely 50i -
how would the camera square that circle (ie outputting two different
picture sizes at two different frame rates simultaneously)? If the BBC
DO have an HD 50i feed available to them then why are we being treated
to 4:3? That quibble aside, I'm very impressed with the BBC's
multi-feed interactive presentation, it's gotta be the best way to
watch the Olympics yet devised.

Does the NBC HD coverage look like it's native frame rate or is it
resampled?

--
Adrian Thomas
AUTOMATIC TELEVISION
LONDON WC2N 4DU
www.autotv.co.uk
+44 (0) 20 7240 2073
--




--__--__--

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:04:35 +0100
Subject: Re: [tig] HD telecined TV shows
From: Dick Hobbs <dick at hobbsonline.tv>
To: TIG <tig at tig.colorist.org>

To be honest, I have hardly looked at the Olympics coverage yet, so I had
not even realised we are getting it in 4:3 in the UK.

My understanding is that all the big events are being covered by HD capable
scanners, provided by the likes of Alfacam. They are shooting in HD, in
16:9. Someone somewhere has made the decision, though, that the standard
definition feed from the International Broadcast Centre, will be 4:3, which
must be ARCed down in most cases.

The best people to answer these questions would be Panasonic who are prime
contractors for the Olympics, as ever. If there is anyone from Panasonic out
there, maybe they would like to comment.

Despite the fact that I used to edit a leading creative technology magazine
and now edit a leading broadcast hardware magazine, as well as all the other
stuff I do, Panasonic's European PR operation refuses to talk to me so I
cannot help, I am afraid.

Dick



***************************

Dick Hobbs
Freelance writer and consultant on television and film technology
+44 1435 830988
dick at hobbsonline.tv





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has been checked by the altohiway Mailcontroller
Service*****************************************************************


--__--__--

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 17:33:20 +0200
From: "Antony Olivier" <antony.olivier at studio-equipe.be>
To: "TIG" <tig at tig.colorist.org>
Subject: [tig] Sony Vialta

Hi all,


Is there anyboby who knows how many Sony Vialta telecine are still =
running ?
And where ?

Thank you.
Best regards.



Antony.


--__--__--

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 08:52:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Patrick Howley <pathowley47 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [tig] HD telecined TV shows
To: Marc Wielage <mfw at musictrax.com>, Ole Alstrup <alstrup at yahoo.com>,
  TIG <tig at snowball.calarts.edu>

> On 8/19/04 5:27 AM, "Ole Alstrup"
> <alstrup at yahoo.com> wrote on the TIG List:
>
> > I wanted to ask the people in the telecine
> community
> > if there are any television series/shows, either
> > classic or contemporary, that has been telecined
> in HD
> > formats? I am doing a survey on behalf of a
> classic tv
> > series fandom network.
>
Our client, CBS Digital in LA restored all of the "I
love Lucy" episodes in HD - several hundred shows for
DVD release.

Patrick Howley
MTI Film
516.241.4312

=====
Patrick Howley
516.241.4312



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--__--__--

Message: 10
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:07:31 -0700
From: eriku at flyingspot.com
To: Adrian Thomas <adrian at autotv.co.uk>
Cc: Marc Wielage <mfw at musictrax.com>, tig at tig.colorist.org
Subject: Re: [tig] HD telecined TV shows


For the most part, the cameras are for the host broadcaster (AOB) and the
rights-holder (NBC).  Being on site at the olympics venues is impressive,
more
remote trucks, triax, and production people than I could have imagined.

NBC is using one of those super high-speed cameras (1000fps+) at the
swimming
venue.  We then bring the footage in via a laptop for processing, and then
out
to tape for air...  really neat looking stuff.

Erik Utter
Flying Spot
(NBC for the remainder of the month)

Quoting Adrian Thomas <adrian at autotv.co.uk>:

> thanks to Jim Lindelien for supporting the TIG.
> --
>
>
> On 20 Aug 2004, at 13:04, Marc Wielage wrote:
> >
> > Odd.  We're seeing NBC's HD coverage of the Summer Olympics on this
> > side of
> > the pond in full-frame 16x9, no mattes.  I wonder where your HD feed is
> > coming from for the U.K.?
> >
>
> Ooh, now that really is intriguing. Do you get all the 'supermotion'
> instant playbacks that we're getting on the 4:3/50i feed? I was
> watching the synchronised diving the other day and was marvelling at
> the sheer number of different TV cameras directly opposite the divers.
> There were at least SIX in effectively the same position - three per
> diver! If one was HD (60i, presumably) one 4:3/50i and one supermotion,
> that would account for it, but I'd still imagine that they couldn't do
> this treble for every camera position - what's the HD presentation
> like, is it pretty static?
>
> > The specific decision on aspect ratios is one from the distributors,
> > not
> > from the post houses or by colorists.  I know that HD Net is running
> > CHARLIE'S ANGELS and HOGAN'S HEROES in 16x9, but there's a little teeny
> > black matte on the extreme left and right.  I wouldn't say it's 14x9,
> > but
> > there's definitely something going on.
> >
>
> The thing is, with 14:9 you almost lose the matting in overscan anyway,
> which is why such aostensibly bad theory works so well in (CRT)
> practice.
>
> > You can contact Mark Cuban of HD Net at mark at hd.net if you want to ask
> > him
> > about their choice for aspect ratios.  (The address is on their
> > webpage at
> > http://www.hd.net on the web.)
> >
>
> I might just do that, as we're supposedly going to be offered some
> (almost certainly American flavoured) HD next year from our friends at
> Sky.
>
> --
> Adrian Thomas
> AUTOMATIC TELEVISION
> LONDON WC2N 4DU
> www.autotv.co.uk
> +44 (0) 20 7240 2073
> --
>
>
>
> --
> Help wanted ads are welcome here on the main TIG; blatant advertising
> or marketing is not but can be sent to tig-announce at tig.colorist.org.
> For contributions see http://tig.colorist.org the "make a donation" button
at
> the bottom, thank you!.
>





--__--__--

Message: 11
Date: 20 Aug 2004 10:19:51 -0700
From: Emory Cohen <ecohen at laserpacific.com>
Subject: Re: [tig] Sony Vialta
To: TIG <tig at tig.colorist.org>,
    Antony Olivier <antony.olivier at studio-equipe.be>,
    <tig-admin at tig.colorist.org>
Reply-To: Emory Cohen <ecohen at laserpacific.com>

Ours is.  All day, every day.  Very reliable, and quality is equal to the =
best.

Emory Cohen
Laser Pacific=20
Hollywood

On Friday, August 20, 2004 8:33 am, Antony Olivier <antony.olivier at studio-=
equipe.be> wrote:
>thanks to Jim Lindelien for supporting the TIG.
>--
>
>Hi all,
>
>
>Is there anyboby who knows how many Sony Vialta telecine are still =
running ?
>And where ?
>
>Thank you.
>Best regards.
>
>
>
>Antony.
>
>--
>Help wanted ads are welcome here on the main TIG; blatant advertising
>or marketing is not but can be sent to tig-announce at tig.colorist.org.
>For contributions see http://tig.colorist.org the "make a
>donation" button at the bottom, thank you!.
>





--__--__--

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