[Tig] Unsubscribe

Lucas Wilson lucas
Fri Dec 2 14:57:55 GMT 2005

Thanks to everyone for supporting the TIG through
the years.
Hey now...

A lot of people at manufacturers (me included) have worked for several years
"in the chair" and come to our jobs via a genuine love of the blend of
artistry and technology. Actually, for the past several years, I've switched
over a few times from being a full-time "in the chair" artist to working for
a manufacturer.

Isn't part of the point of industry forums to promote technical viewpoints
and potentially alert manufacturers to ideas and trends? I know I certainly
want our products to evolve based on a wide range of user input. I can point
to features in our software that are specific to almost every one of our
customers... and I'm pretty proud of that. But the only reason that happens
is because of honest debate across a wide range of topics, and from a wide
range of people.

No matter what rules you put, bullies will always be bullies. Posts about
manufacturers will always get back to the manufacturer. It's a damned shame
that some companies take that attitude. There's no place for it... but a
bully is a bully. And that happens on even the most tightly moderated

I've had tons of fascinating off-list discussions with artists from around
the world that started with conversations and threads on the TiG. I'd be sad
if that went away.

...just my $.02.

Lucas Wilson
Assimilate, Inc.
Los Angeles

-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Leffel
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 10:57 PM
To: Michael Orton
Cc: tig at tig.colorist.org
Subject: Re: [Tig] Suggestions for the TIG

I have said this privately, but I will say it openly now. I think 
manufacturers should be kept on a tight leash here. I think they should 
have to contribute something for the privledge of lurking and listening 
to open dialog about product use. Many of them have their own user 
forums, and that is part of their service contracts they like to extort 
from us. This forum, while quite useful to many,  is the cause of 
meetings and discussions in manufacturer backrooms around the world and 
has been for years. I don't like the idea, and I think their information 
can be quite skewed by giving this forum - and certain posters -  too 
much credit from time to time. I don't find that all that many of them 
listen very well to user's intent and real needs anyway - they're not so 
smart, some of them. Their agendas are set long in advance, and 
programming these days takes a long time to change course. Besides, 
there would be many many opinions on what direction a company's 
programmers should take from the get-go, and I doubt we'd ever get the 
chance in an open forum to discuss it... so why should they get to hear 
our private discussions over the use and mis-use of their products for 
free? Even if we can't agree that it should be monetary, I believe they 
should contribute SOMETHING. Good will, like a fund... scholarships, 
training,... SOMETHING.

I can't stress enough how much it bothers me that more than a few people 
have gotten hassled off list from manufacturers who want to defend their 
product or take umberage with attitudes or weaknesses inferred. This is 
not their forum. They have no ownership here, nor should they. At one 
point, I was threatened legally for posts made here. While long in the 
past, they had no case and backed down. There is no case to have from 
postings here, and those who seek to operate that way should be banned 
immediately. And when I say banned, I mean every single email address 
from an infringing company, not just the individual poster. Then if 
people still want to forward emails to their favorite sales guy, it's 
their own personal problem and risk.  I promise you that there are those 
manufacturers so afraid of their position in the market that 
intimidation and hassle are well within their M.O.

I therefore move to consider this concept post haste.

Craig Leffel
Senior Colorist
Chicago / Santa Monica

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