[Tig] Super 16--BBC and other comments...

[Jim Mann]

Hi Adam and gang,

I have worked on several long format S-16 projects and I agree that Kodak's
7218 (500ASA-Tungsten Balanced) is a great leap forward for Super-16. I have
obtained excellent shadow detail on night shots with a granularity that
rivals 35mm film of the past.

I think there are problems concerning S-16, Film Grain and MPEG-4, Here are
some, I have found in my travels.

1) Colorists (sometimes driven by client direction) go for too much
Contrast/Density in a scene and amplify the grain by stretching signal too
far.
2) DP'S (and Colorists) LIKE the look of the grain and  feel it is part of
the Art. (Not a problem just a fact)
3) the general lack of HD Noise reduction technology in Telecine suites.
Sure most suites have SD Noise reduction but the budgets did not allow for
expensive HD noise reducers. You will find HD Noise Reduction at High end
commercial houses but few in facilities that do long format.
4) The General belief in some facilities that Noise/Grain reduction is a bad
thing and creates more problems that is solves. (as in rejected tapes due to
lag artifacts caused by improperly set recursive noise reduction.)
5) lack of Colorists understanding of noise reduction, the different types
and how to set them up. (I find this common.)

Regards,
Jim

Jim Mann
Freelance Colorist
New York City, USA
Mobile 516-250-0909
http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/User:Jim_Mann







I just finished a music video shot super16 a few weeks ago.  It was a
spirit transfer to 1080p d5-hd.  It seemed to me that the slower
speed stocks partnering with better lenses provided great results.
On the other hand, there was a section shot on the fuji 500D, with a
not so great lens that came out very soft and very grainy.  In my
opinion, and from my limited experience with super16, the kodak 500T
resolves a far less grainy image than the fuji 500D...even when
underexposed.

For a sharp, tightly grained picture in HD from super16, I think it's
probably smart to stick with ISO250 and below...


To add another super16 show to the list, "The O.C." is on Fox and
broadcast in 720P i believe.


thanks so much,

Adam Berk
BluMedia Projekt and Creative Technology
Flame/Smoke artist and C>me development team
T. +13303103950
E. adam at blumediaprojekt.com

www.blumediaprojekt.com
www.creativetechnology.com



On Jan 11, 2007, at 8:53 AM, Ted Langdell wrote:

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> Ted Langdell
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> On Jan 11, 2007, at 5:13 AM, vinny wrote:
>> Rob,
>>
>> It has nothing to do with the originating format, it has
>> everything to do
>> with the broadcast path of the images, heavy compression etc..
>> This has been
>> going on since I believe in the early 90's when CBS New York made a
>> statement that 16mm or s/16mm was too grainy for broadcast.
>>
>> Bob Mastronardi of Kodak New York was and is very involved with this
>> subject, perhaps we can have him respond.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Vinny Hogan
>> Cineworks-Miami
>
> The BBC item and Vinny's post are interesting from a couple of points:
>
> CBS aired "Dr. Quinn: Medicine Woman" which, from what I understand
> was shot in Super 16... something that I hadn't realized from
> watching the show until I happened on a location shoot at the State
> Capitol grounds in Sacramento and asked about it. Arri cameras were
> in use, IIRC. IMDB (for what that's worth) reports they were from
> Claremont camera. Not sure whether it ever aired as an HD program
> on CBS.
>
> IMDB (FWTW) also reports Randy Starnes was a colorist on an
> "unknown" number of Dr. Quinn episodes, so he might comment.
>
> I could have sworn that the last season(s)? of NBC's West Wing were
> shot in Super 16 and aired in HD... but I can't find confirmation
> of the use of Super 16. I remember comparing episodes from the
> previous season with the first of the new one and couldn't really
> tell much if any differences.
>
> And... Kodak has several web pages of data about series and MOW's
> that have been shot on Super 16.
>
> http://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/acrobat/en/motion/16mm/
> super16_intro.pdf reports on page 8 about "The Virgin Queen" a four-
> part BBC miniseries that also aired on PBS's Masterpiece Theater.
>
> http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/16mm/why/filmMaker/hdtv.jhtml?
> id=0.1.4.3.10&lc=en ends with this comment:
>
> POSTSCRIPT: On November 8, 1996 CBS Television engineers authored a
> technical paper based on their subjective and objective evaluations
> of a daylight exterior test shot on a backlot in Los Angeles. The
> test was recorded on 16 mm, Super 16, 35 mm film and in high-
> definition video formats. After converting all the images to HD
> format, the authors reported that the 16 mm and Super 6 film
> produced objectionable "weave, judder and noise." They recommended
> producing all content for television in either HD video or 35 mm
> film formats. The accuracy of that test is questionable, but one
> thing is certain: In the ensuing eight years, film and scanning
> technologies have changed the equation. It is long past due time to
> toss that report in the circular file.
>
> Ted.
>
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