[Tig] Tig Digest, Vol 39, Issue 3

benjamin at digitalsprockets.net benjamin at digitalsprockets.net
Thu Jul 19 20:07:56 BST 2007


For external firewire drives is best to build your own, so you know what
you put inside, the latest I built is a 1 TB in RAID 0 with 2 Western
Digital YS drives on a coolgear case, the case has 1 usb2 1 1394 400 and 2
800. It is fast and reliable. And it looks cool. It can sustain 1 stream of
uncomressed SD easy.
Thanks


Original Message:
-----------------
From:  tig-request at tig.colorist.org
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 11:13:13 -0700
To: tig at tig.colorist.org
Subject: Tig Digest, Vol 39, Issue 3


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Thanks to Egil Ljøstad and NRK for support in 2007. 
TIG portal: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3
2007: 15th year of the TIG.
 ====

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: 888 and DUI (Robert Houllahan)
   2. Re: 888 and DUI (Rob Lingelbach)
   3. removable storage disks (Jack James)
   4. Re: removable storage disks (Rich Montez)
   5. Re: removable storage disks (Bob Friesenhahn)
   6. Re: removable storage disks (Bob Kertesz)
   7. Re: removable storage disks (Bob Friesenhahn)
   8. Re: removable storage disks (Bob Kertesz)
   9. Re: [Tif] removable storage disks (Joe Owens)
  10. Re: Visio 2 HD (Jim Mann)
  11. Re: removable storage disks (DCSOS)
  12. Re: removable storage disks (Adrian Thomas)
  13. Re: removable storage disks (DCSOS)
  14. Colorist Toolkit information (Rob Lingelbach)
  15. Re: Colorist Toolkit information (Rob Lingelbach)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:32:05 -0400
From: Robert Houllahan <rob at cinelab.com>
Subject: Re: [Tig] 888 and DUI
To: tig at tig.colorist.org
Message-ID: <E4568AD4-BED4-46AF-A0C8-6F784C3BED67 at cinelab.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=US-ASCII;	delsp=yes;	format=flowed

> Dubner control panels were 32 channel standard. The 48 channel version
> was a fairly rare option -- even in the (ahem) mid 1980s when we built
> Telecine 2 at Action Video. Sliders were also a Sam Holtz specialty.
> But, I've never seen any others. Care to contribute pictures?

Sliders sliders sliders....I do not know how many channels our Dubner  
is or when it was built. I have an offer on it right now to go to  
egypt and will see but I have been using the CC since I got to  
cinelab and have generally liked it for it's  simple primary color  
control (lift, gamma, gain and RGB and masters for each) and there  
are sliders which were not hooked up to our Mk3 but I am sure  
function if setup.

I will post pics as I have many.....A great reliable simple machine  
that still works I transfered a 16mm MV for a band in boston to DV on  
this TK and I think it went onto some network somewhere as the band  
got popular (Boston's Dresden Dolls) so ancient TK still can look  
good and who needs secondaries and windows anyway?  ;o))

-Rob-

Robert Houllahan
rob at cinelab.com
Filmmaker
Vp Cinelab Inc.
www.cinelab.com




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:12:34 -0300
From: Rob Lingelbach <rob at colorist.org>
Subject: Re: [Tig] 888 and DUI
To: Robert Houllahan <rob at cinelab.com>
Cc: tig at tig.colorist.org
Message-ID: <3730A79D-FA90-4783-83E5-3CB5B21714B9 at colorist.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed


On Jul 18, 2007, at 9:32 PM, Robert Houllahan wrote:

> so ancient TK still can look
> good and who needs secondaries and windows anyway?  ;o))

I'd like to nominate yellow hue as the one secondary control I can't  
do without, if I were pressed by someone to give up all but one control.
Anyone else?

--
Rob Lingelbach
http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html
rob at calarts.edu





------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 10:52:36 +0100
From: "Jack James" <jack at surrealroad.com>
Subject: [Tig] removable storage disks
To: tig at tig.colorist.org
Message-ID:
	<e9fa7d400707190252k273f4d42uf92a19a35aa6ab04 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi there,
I'm wondering what experiences people have had with removable storage
disks, i.e. firewire and usb disks, especially high-capacity ones, in
terms of their reliability when sending them across the world. I'm
absolutely fed up of the appalling unreliability of lacie drives (my
last estimates were that about 30% seem to fail within a year), and
was going to go with G-Disks instead, but I'm hearing from a
distributor that they've been having lots of returns of those lately.
Any other options out there?

Thanks
Jack

-- 
Surreal Road
Emmunicate Insatiably...
www.surrealroad.com



Please recycle this email to prevent excess bytes clogging up the internet



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 10:17:49 -0400
From: Rich Montez <screenwarmer at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Tig] removable storage disks
To: tig at tig.colorist.org, Jack James <jack at surrealroad.com>
Message-ID:
	<21408451.1184854669255.JavaMail.root at fed1wml14.mgt.cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hi Jack,

I've had bad luck with the Lacie drives also. I now try to go with Seagate
drives and have less failures. The Maxtors seem ok also. Good luck.

Rich Montez


---- Jack James <jack at surrealroad.com> wrote: 
> Thanks to Egil Ljostad and NRK for support in 2007. 
> TIG portal: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3
> 2007: 15th year of the TIG.
>  ====
> 
> Hi there,
> I'm wondering what experiences people have had with removable storage
> disks, i.e. firewire and usb disks, especially high-capacity ones, in
> terms of their reliability when sending them across the world. I'm
> absolutely fed up of the appalling unreliability of lacie drives (my
> last estimates were that about 30% seem to fail within a year), and
> was going to go with G-Disks instead, but I'm hearing from a
> distributor that they've been having lots of returns of those lately.
> Any other options out there?
> 
> Thanks
> Jack
> 
> -- 
> Surreal Road
> Emmunicate Insatiably...
> www.surrealroad.com
> 
> 
> 
> Please recycle this email to prevent excess bytes clogging up the internet
> 
> _______________________________________________
> No personal abuse; absolutely no advertising or marketing on the main TIG
mailinglist.  Emergency
> tig contact address is rob (at) calarts.edu
> Tig mailing list
> Tig at tig.colorist.org
> http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:25:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: Bob Friesenhahn <bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us>
Subject: Re: [Tig] removable storage disks
To: Jack James <jack at surrealroad.com>
Cc: tig at ns1.colorist.org
Message-ID: <Pine.SOC.4.60.0707190909360.922 at blade.simplesystems.org>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Jack James wrote:
> Hi there,
> I'm wondering what experiences people have had with removable storage
> disks, i.e. firewire and usb disks, especially high-capacity ones, in
> terms of their reliability when sending them across the world. I'm
> absolutely fed up of the appalling unreliability of lacie drives (my
> last estimates were that about 30% seem to fail within a year), and
> was going to go with G-Disks instead, but I'm hearing from a
> distributor that they've been having lots of returns of those lately.
> Any other options out there?

I purchased a 600GB LaCie "RAID 0" drive which did fail, but a bit 
past its warranty period.  I should have known better than to purchase 
any RAID 0 product since such products are at least 2X (but probably 
4X) more likely to fail than single drive units.  I took the broken 
unit apart and it seemed to be reasonably well constructed.  One of 
the hard drives failed to spin up so the failure could be blamed on 
the hard drive rather than LaCie's "value add".

There is an old adage "You get what you pay for" and I think it 
applies here.  The market is very price competitive so vendors like 
LaCie purchase the absolute cheapest drives with the desired capacity. 
There are only three large drive vendors in the world (Seagate, 
Western Digital, and Fujitsu) so you can be sure that the hard drive 
comes from one of these makers.  At the typical price point, it is 
likely that the quality of the drives will be the same.

Bob
======================================
Bob Friesenhahn
bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/
GraphicsMagick Maintainer,    http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/




------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 07:39:01 -0700
From: Bob Kertesz <bob at bluescreen.com>
Subject: Re: [Tig] removable storage disks
To: tig at ns1.colorist.org
Message-ID: <mptu939v84uvcu3gml6t6nimrntrh0ofv1 at 4ax.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

>I should have known better than to purchase 
>any RAID 0 product since such products are at least 2X (but probably 
>4X) more likely to fail than single drive units.

I haven't heard anything like that before. Why do you think that's the case?

Bob Kertesz
BlueScreen LLC
Hollywood, California
bob at bluescreen.com

The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE? compositing.  
For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:45:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: Bob Friesenhahn <bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us>
Subject: Re: [Tig] removable storage disks
To: Bob Kertesz <bob at bluescreen.com>
Cc: tig at ns1.colorist.org
Message-ID: <Pine.SOC.4.60.0707190940070.922 at blade.simplesystems.org>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Bob Kertesz wrote:
>> I should have known better than to purchase
>> any RAID 0 product since such products are at least 2X (but probably
>> 4X) more likely to fail than single drive units.
>
> I haven't heard anything like that before. Why do you think that's the
case?

Due to use of twice as many non-redundant components, of course.  With 
RAID 0, if any of the drives fail, then all of the data is lost.

The external drive vendors push RAID 0 due to its (supposed) 
performance boost, but the reality is that they like RAID 0 since it 
allows them to easily offer more storage in the box while using 
lower-capacity, cheaper, drives.

Bob
======================================
Bob Friesenhahn
bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/
GraphicsMagick Maintainer,    http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/




------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 07:59:04 -0700
From: Bob Kertesz <bob at bluescreen.com>
Subject: Re: [Tig] removable storage disks
To: tig at ns1.colorist.org
Message-ID: <pstu93tnr725i70mqimn3cj6t189ti32i6 at 4ax.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

>I'm wondering what experiences people have had with removable storage
>disks, i.e. firewire and usb disks, especially high-capacity ones, in
>terms of their reliability when sending them across the world. I'm
>absolutely fed up of the appalling unreliability of lacie drives (my
>last estimates were that about 30% seem to fail within a year), and
>was going to go with G-Disks instead, but I'm hearing from a
>distributor that they've been having lots of returns of those lately.
>Any other options out there?

Lacie drives have a pretty poor reputation if you do a Google search. Lots
of
problems. Since they use off the shelf drives like everyone else, it may
have
something to do with the cooling (or lack thereof) in their cases.

If you can do without firewire, Antec makes an excellent well-cooled quiet
USB/eSATA case called the MX-1 for around $60, and you can drop an eSATA 300
drive in there from Seagate. 

Be aware that Seagate makes several levels of drives at the same capacity,
so
for instance at 750 gig they have eSATA 300 drives rated at 8 hours/day
operation, 24 hours/day operation, and their DB35 line, which has been
designed to run in DVRs like the HD TiVo essentially silently 24/7 for years
(it says here).

So for somewhere around $350 and about 10 minutes easy labor, you can put
together a portable 750 GB USB/eSATA II drive that's pretty much as reliable
as you can get, and the drive comes with a five year no bullshit warranty
where they will pre-ship the replacement if you ask them to.

Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with any company mentioned here, except as
a
satisfied customer, blah, blah, blah.

--Bob

Bob Kertesz
BlueScreen LLC
Hollywood, California
bob at bluescreen.com

The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE? compositing.  
For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:05:25 -0600
From: Joe Owens <jpo at prestodigital.ca>
Subject: Re: [Tig] [Tif] removable storage disks
To: Tig at tig.colorist.org
Message-ID: <075B1A04-180F-4AB0-BE69-B1870BC6767E at prestodigital.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=US-ASCII;	delsp=yes;	format=flowed

Quoting:
" any RAID 0 product since such products are at least 2X (but probably
> 4X) more likely to fail than single drive units.
>

I haven't heard anything like that before. Why do you think that's  
the case?"

Maybe its the cascading MTBF reliability... or UNreliability, if you  
prefer.  RAID 0 has to stay robust across the stripe, and anytime you  
"gang" devices with the same failure rate, the probability of failure  
goes up, not down.  Third year Engineering Statistics, at least 30  
years ago...  probably grade 9 math now...

The classic analysis problem is to sort out the probability of  
success for a device with a certain failure rate, then recalculate   
the mission success with a backup system in place.  Factors then  
involve:  the reliability of error-sensing, success of engaging the  
backup system, the failure rate of the backup system itself, ...  
etc.   My recollection is that NASA had to hit something like 10-9's  
to approve a device for inclusion on a SaturnV rocket.  Thats one  
chance in 10 to the 10th power that it would fail...   remember there  
were millions of things could go wrong.

Me, I just take a lot of ginger care of external drives, and  
religiously observe procedures for powering up and down and  
ejection.  I'm sure I'll lose something eventually, though...  
probability being what it is, and my hitchhikers' guide attitude  
towards what is inevitable, although that does not apply to the  
federal lottery.

Joe Owens
Presto!Digital Colourgrade
302-9664 106 Avenue
Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4
+1 780 421-9980
jpo at prestodigital.ca





------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 11:31:25 -0400
From: Jim Mann <jfmann at optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Tig] Visio 2 HD
To: 'Ricardo Acosta' <tkvenezuela at hotmail.com>, 'tig tig'
	<tig at colorist.org>
Message-ID: <003301c7ca19$e2b0cfe0$a8126fa0$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Hi Ricardo,
You may be right, no one knows. Your talking about using 5299, Kodak's Scan
only film. I do not know of anyone using it or testing it. 5299 is the
ultimate "You don't need to know how to shoot film. We will fix it in
POST... product". This product insults both DP's and colorists. So you want
to replace your colorist with the "KODAK VISION2 HD Digital Processor"  Also
Known As...Color correction in a can. Color correction for girlie men, if
you ask me.  Hmmmmm.... Good luck with that.   :)

Disclaimer: These views are mine alone and not those of my employer. I also
respect the talent of the world's female and or gay colorists, hey, it's
just an expression.
Regards,
jim


Jim Mann
Colorist 
jmann at pwny.com
PostWorks, New York 
100 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10013
10th Floor 
Ph: 212.894.4000 or 212.894.4050
Fax: 212.941.0439
Handy: 516-250-0909
http://www.pwny.com

-----Original Message-----
From: tig-bounces at tig.colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at tig.colorist.org] On
Behalf Of Ricardo Acosta
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:08 AM
To: tig tig
Subject: [Tig] Visio 2 HD

Thanks to Egil Ljostad and NRK for support in 2007. 
TIG portal: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3
2007: 15th year of the TIG.
 ====


Hello:Last week I asked about Kodak Vision 2 HD transfer system and got no
answer. Does that means nobody on the TIG knows anything about it? I?ve
heard from Kodak that the system is being used widely and that shows like
"24 HOURS" are transferred this way.Regards;
Ricardo Acosta, Colorista.Telecine de Venezuela, Caracas.
 
 
_________________________________________________________________
Make every IM count. Download Windows Live Messenger and join the i?m
Initiative now. It?s free.?
http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGWL_June07
_______________________________________________
No personal abuse; absolutely no advertising or marketing on the main TIG
mailinglist.  Emergency
tig contact address is rob (at) calarts.edu
Tig mailing list
Tig at tig.colorist.org
http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig





------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 12:35:48 -0400
From: DCSOS <DCSOS at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Tig] removable storage disks
To: "mail=tig at tig.colorist.org" <tig at tig.colorist.org>
Message-ID: <9214A45B-3B0E-49DA-8DD7-C913B312E15C at AOL.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

I have two of these LA CIE enclosures given me when they failed out  
of their warantee period.
All four WD discs that were inside are fine and installed in cheaper  
(ULTRA branded) non  raided enclosures.
Does anyone know if its worth repairing the BOX itself?
Both were the 500gig product that appears as one drive of 500MB
Dany,
Editors Hideaway

>  ====
>
>
>> I should have known better than to purchase
>> any RAID 0 product since such products are at least 2X (but probably
>> 4X) more likely to fail than single drive units.
>>
>
>



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:33:47 +0100
From: Adrian Thomas <adrian at autotv.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tig] removable storage disks
To: "Jack James" <jack at surrealroad.com>
Cc: tig at tig.colorist.org
Message-ID: <360514A3-CC73-4B3B-8DA6-90C29358F45B at autotv.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed


On Jul 19, 2007, at 10:52, Jack James wrote:

>
> Hi there,
> I'm wondering what experiences people have had with removable storage
> disks, i.e. firewire and usb disks, especially high-capacity ones, in
> terms of their reliability when sending them across the world. I'm
> absolutely fed up of the appalling unreliability of lacie drives (my
> last estimates were that about 30% seem to fail within a year), and
> was going to go with G-Disks instead, but I'm hearing from a
> distributor that they've been having lots of returns of those lately.
> Any other options out there?

We have found that bus-powered, laptop drives are the more reliable  
solution. They cost more per GB, but are more portable and do not  
require a power supply. SmartDisk Firelite drives are nice, for  
example. (I don't work for them or get paid by them, of course).  
LaCie drives seem to suffer from power supply issues more than  
anything else - you can usually get your data back.

--
Adrian Thomas
AUTOMATIC TELEVISION
LONDON UK WC2N 4DU
www.autotv.co.uk
+44 (0) 20 7240 2073
--





------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:04:46 -0400
From: DCSOS <DCSOS at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Tig] removable storage disks
To: "mail=tig at tig.colorist.org" <tig at tig.colorist.org>
Message-ID: <9E2CC606-B5AD-482A-9EFD-C3C9EA618D2C at AOL.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

>>

Note the Enclosures (LA CIE RAID 500GB) in question were then powered  
up with our resident and functional LACIE 12/5 Volt 4 PIN Power supply.
When plugged in (in an attempt to power the failed two units) the  
POWER SUPPLY would flicker-- instead of solidly light..Later  
investigation showed the power-supply to be good.... EVEN after not  
powering the failed ENCLOSURES (so in our experience its that little  
circuit card inside that FAILED not the PS)
Dany
Editors' Hideaway
>> Hi there,
>> I'm wondering what experiences people have had with removable storage
>> disks, i.e. firewire and usb disks, especially high-capacity ones, in
>> terms of their reliability when sending them across the world. I'm
>> absolutely fed up of the appalling unreliability of lacie drives (my
>> last estimates were that about 30% seem to fail within a year), and
>> was going to go with G-Disks instead, but I'm hearing from a
>> distributor that they've been having lots of returns of those lately.
>> Any other options out there?
>
> We have found that bus-powered, laptop drives are the more reliable
> solution. They cost more per GB, but are more portable and do not
> require a power supply. SmartDisk Firelite drives are nice, for
> example. (I don't work for them or get paid by them, of course).
> LaCie drives seem to suffer from power supply issues more than
> anything else - you can usually get your data back.
>
> --
> Adrian Thomas
> AUTOMATIC TELEVISION
> LONDON UK WC2N 4DU
> www.autotv.co.uk
> +44 (0) 20 7240 2073
> --
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> No personal abuse; absolutely no advertising or marketing on the  
> main TIG mailinglist.  Emergency
> tig contact address is rob (at) calarts.edu
> Tig mailing list
> Tig at tig.colorist.org
> http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig




------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:10:12 -0300
From: Rob Lingelbach <rob at colorist.org>
Subject: [Tig] Colorist Toolkit information
To: TIG Group <tig at ns1.colorist.org>
Message-ID: <FC265FFC-6DD3-4252-9AF4-90A873FA68AF at colorist.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

The following information is courtesy George Gush from Kodak, by way  
of Paul Chapman at Fotokem.

>
> Best thing to do is to go the the Kodak web site:
> http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/wwoffices.jhtml? 
> id=0.1.4.15&lc=en
> Get the local phone number if you don't have it then use the 'cat'  
> numbers
> already supplied. They should be orderable from anywhere in the  
> world They
> are made on good old Rochester!

--
Rob Lingelbach
http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html
rob at calarts.edu





------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:13:23 -0300
From: Rob Lingelbach <rob at colorist.org>
Subject: Re: [Tig] Colorist Toolkit information
To: Rob Lingelbach <rob at colorist.org>
Cc: TIG Group <tig at ns1.colorist.org>
Message-ID: <B8A839CB-D8D9-4F57-9D09-00341A96AE0A at colorist.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed


On Jul 19, 2007, at 3:10 PM, Rob Lingelbach wrote:

>>
>> Best thing to do is to go the the Kodak web site:
>> http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/wwoffices.jhtml?
>> id=0.1.4.15&lc=en

I just noticed that URL didn't wrap well so here is the reference  
using tinyurl:

http://tinyurl.com/39r6jq

and as Paul wrote, hopefully you can find a local number and then use  
the 'cat' numbers to order what you need.

--
Rob Lingelbach
http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html
rob at calarts.edu





------------------------------

_______________________________________________
No personal abuse; absolutely no advertising or marketing on the main TIG
mailinglist.  Emergency
contact address for tig moderator is rob (at) calarts.edu
Tig mailing list
Tig at tig.colorist.org
http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig

End of Tig Digest, Vol 39, Issue 3
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