[Tig] what are we going to do (monitors)

Steve Hathaway steve at oxygendct.com
Mon Mar 31 12:29:08 BST 2008


I haven't been through all the long email trail of this latest LCD debate but as regards colour
rendition the EBU REC709 sets out standards from chromaticity while the little known EBU TECH 3320
paper sets out standards for Grade 1, Grade 2 and Grade 3 LCDs. Utilising these two 'standards'
would ensure that users could at least determine comparative performance of respective manufacturers
LCD displays. Penta in Germany appear to lead the way by ensuring that their LCDs are manufactured
to REC709 standards and meet EBU TECH 3320 Grade 2 performance - there are no Grade 1 LCDs available
to date and almost all just meet Grade 3 level. 

Open disclosure on our part; whilst we are the UK distributor for Penta LCDs in the UK we also sell
and manufacture other LCD displays. 

Hope the above adds to the debate!.

Kind regards
 
Steve Hathaway
Director, Business Development 
Oxygen DCT Limited
P: +44 (0) 8707 462 062
F: +44 (0) 8707 462 063
M: +44 (0) 789 989 0241
E: steve at oxygendct.com
W: www.oxygendct.com
W: www.oxygendbss.com
W: www.anydefinition.tv
W: www.oxychips.com
 
- World leaders in broadcast LCDs
- World's largest range of routing   systems 
- World's largest range of video interfaces and converters
- World leading HDTV up, down and down conversion products 
 
Check out the New Evolution Pro LCDs launched this January. 
 


-----Original Message-----
From: tig-bounces at tig.colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at tig.colorist.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Perez
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 8:35 PM
To: tig at colorist.org
Subject: Re: [Tig] what are we going to do (monitors)


1824 subscribers as of March 2008
MTI Film supports the TIG http://colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGNABFS08
 ====


 
Bob,
I agree with you ... I don't like LCD monitors ... I don't think they 
are acceptable as grading monitors. And not only because of their poor black levels. There are
issues with vision angles, color temperature, gamma ramping, ...
 
I didn't mean we should be showing DPs and directors the printouts of very 
precise measurements and saying, "Who are you going to believe, ..." 
 
We all hear and say "The blacks look too milky" ... and they probably are. 
We know they are !!! ... A colorimeter or a spectrophotometer will only 
confirm that .... and then tell us much more if a complete CIE XYZ or CIE 
L*u*v* profile is generated and compared to the video standards profiles.
 
What I want to see is these video gear vendors showing us the precise 
measurements when showing their products, and try to convince us this way that their monitors are
indeed acceptable grading monitors, instead 
of simply trying to trick our eyes turning on and off lights in the demo 
room.
 
The perception issue lies behind a color science issue ... and there are tools available out there
... and vendors have access to them !!!
 
It is a frigging nightmare ... and I agree with Mike Most when he says he'd prefer to se a better
LCD HD monitor before a new 4K one not usable for grading. Daniel Perez DI - PRODURAMA Venezuela
 



> From: bob at bluescreen.com> To: tig at colorist.org> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 
> 08:55:14 -0700> Subject: Re: [Tig] what are we going to do (monitors)> > 1824 subscribers as of
March 2008> MTI Film supports the TIG> http://colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGNABFS08> ====> > >
>Why handle this issue as a perception issue?> > Because as far as I'm concerned, in a situation
where work for hire is being> done for money, that's exactly what it is.> > It doesn't matter how
precisely you measure anything if the producer,> director, or DP sitting behind you says "The blacks
look too milky" and> there's nothing you can do about it.> > Showing them the printouts of very
precise measurements and saying, in effect,> "Who are you going to believe, these measurements or
your lying eyes?" will> only make things worse.> > I've been battling this on set (where it's MUCH
tougher to control ambient> conditions than in a suite) for months now, and in the end I've had to
say> "Look, I know this is not what you are used to, but this is the way everything> is headed
because CRTs have been declared dead by Sony, and there's no going> back. The picture you're looking
at is only valid if your head is directly> centered on the monitor, and even then the blacks will
not look as deep as> you're used to seeing." > > It's just a frigging nightmare sometimes.> > --Bob>
> Bob Kertesz> BlueScreen LLC> Hollywood, California> bob at bluescreen.com> > The Ultimate in
ULTIMATTER compositing. > For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com> >
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