From jdhouston at earthlink.net Sun Nov 2 16:34:55 2008 From: jdhouston at earthlink.net (Jim Houston) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 08:34:55 -0800 Subject: [Tig] blue vs. green PTRs In-Reply-To: References: <833341BD63F04390A53FA1F52EA06B31@Sprocket> Message-ID: <4C8720F1-D18A-4651-996A-371BCEF8862F@earthlink.net> On Oct 31, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: >>> > > can i get them in vanilla maple, with a pleasing scent? Only if you burn them after rolling them in vanilla extract and maple syrup. if you want the scent that much, you should probably take them off the telecine first... although i've heard maple-scented film may become the new rage for archivists (they are very tired of vinegar). Jim From jfmann at optimum.net Mon Nov 3 03:20:29 2008 From: jfmann at optimum.net (Jim Mann) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 22:20:29 -0500 Subject: [Tig] blue vs. green PTRs In-Reply-To: <4C8720F1-D18A-4651-996A-371BCEF8862F@earthlink.net> References: <833341BD63F04390A53FA1F52EA06B31@Sprocket> <4C8720F1-D18A-4651-996A-371BCEF8862F@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000601c93d63$1f70c2b0$5e524810$@net> Hi, We use the Orange for 35mm and the green for 16mm. I don’t like the orange...under the funky deck lights on the Spirit 2K, it is impossible to see the dirt build up on the surface of the orange rollers. Jim Jim Mann Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist [ POSTWORKS ] NEW YORK 100 Avenue of Americas, 10th Floor New York, NY 10013 T 212 894 4000 C 516-250-0909 F 212 941 0439 http://www.postworks.com http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/User:Jim_Mann Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. From liao.zd at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 03:32:31 2008 From: liao.zd at gmail.com (Liao Zhuodi) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 11:32:31 +0800 Subject: [Tig] spirit4K jitter Message-ID: <490e70cc.034c6e0a.0de7.ffffe368@mx.google.com> We are using our Spirit4K scanning some VFX shots in 2K resolution for 35mm negative, I scan them at 20 to 24 Fps speed. The .dpx files are jittering a little bit, in both horizontal and vertical directions, around 2-4 pixels jitter between each frame. Is that the machine’s tolerance or something wrong with my operation? Liao.zd at gmail.com From steve.simon at snellwilcox.com Mon Nov 3 13:16:26 2008 From: steve.simon at snellwilcox.com (Steve Simon) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 13:16:26 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Red channel missing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3c598e72db3b0ab5ed6fe6d4466ceb29@snellwilcox.com> > Special purpose software could estimate a red channel based on the > individual pixel values which achieve a median black/white intensity > level. For example, if you had an image of an 18% gray card, then it > should be possible to compute a red channel which provides a fairly > nutural color balance even if colors are not accurate. I don't see how this is possible, unless your software has significant knowledge of the scene you are trying to fix. Imagine the 18% graycard senerio, add in the pale hand of a Scandinavian grip holding the greycard and a red UK telephone box in the background. If you correct the greycard the hand will be far too red and the telephone box will be almost Cyan. I don't see how this can be fixed without a human operator painting the reds back into the scene; or as somone else suggested, go for Monochrome. Even the Mono option will produce odd results, the telephone box in the example will be almost black, whilst the hand will be too pale. -Steve This email and any attachments is confidential, may be legally privileged and is intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that any use, disclosure, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If received in error, please delete this email and any attachments and confirm this to the sender. From jdhouston at earthlink.net Mon Nov 3 16:17:08 2008 From: jdhouston at earthlink.net (Jim Houston) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 08:17:08 -0800 Subject: [Tig] spirit4K jitter In-Reply-To: <490e70cc.034c6e0a.0de7.ffffe368@mx.google.com> References: <490e70cc.034c6e0a.0de7.ffffe368@mx.google.com> Message-ID: For horizontal movement, that is more than the Spirit 'spec', however it is consistent with what other units produce. Alignment of the film path is important, and so is making certain there is no dirt at all on the capstan. Careful operation can make that better. I don't think a vertical jitter of 4 pixels is normal however, that is something that should be looked at, particularly checking for wear on the sprocket leading into the gate or 'picking' of the film as it comes on or off the sprockets. (Note that a gradual drift over multiple frames is not quite the same as frame-to-frame jitter) Jim Houston Postworks L.A. On Nov 2, 2008, at 7:32 PM, Liao Zhuodi wrote: > 2021 subscribers as of November 2008 > Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG > www.flandersscientific.com > http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > We are using our Spirit4K scanning some VFX shots in 2K resolution > for 35mm negative, I scan them at 20 to 24 Fps speed. The .dpx > files are jittering a little bit, in both horizontal and vertical > directions, around 2-4 pixels jitter between each frame. Is that > the machine’s tolerance or something wrong with my operation? > > > > Liao.zd at gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From TCurren at aol.com Mon Nov 3 17:52:36 2008 From: TCurren at aol.com (TCurren at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:52:36 EST Subject: [Tig] Red channel missing Message-ID: This is actually an area where the Avid Symphony color corrector can help. You can blend amounts from the Blue and Green channels to create a new Red channel in the channels tab. Then of course you have to do some serious tweaking to make it useable, but I have done this in the past successfully. Terence Curren www.AlphaDogs.TV Burbank, CA From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Mon Nov 3 18:39:51 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:39:51 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Tig] Red channel missing In-Reply-To: <3c598e72db3b0ab5ed6fe6d4466ceb29@snellwilcox.com> References: <3c598e72db3b0ab5ed6fe6d4466ceb29@snellwilcox.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Nov 2008, Steve Simon wrote: > > Imagine the 18% graycard senerio, add in the pale hand of a Scandinavian > grip holding the greycard and a red UK telephone box in the background. > > If you correct the greycard the hand will be far too red and the telephone > box will be almost Cyan. I agree that without considerable knowledge of what the scene is supposed to look like, the results will be quite "funky" at best. > I don't see how this can be fixed without a human operator painting > the reds back into the scene; or as somone else suggested, go for > Monochrome. That was my first suggestion. A first order approximation is to use the green channel to obtain the level of gray. A more accurate approximation is to use expected scene balance to obtain a constant value to insert into the red channel. Then use the normal Rec.709 to Luma math. Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From martin-p at moving-picture.com Mon Nov 3 19:57:13 2008 From: martin-p at moving-picture.com (Martin Parsons) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 19:57:13 -0000 Subject: [Tig] spirit4K jitter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB56ED@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> Along with Jim's excellent advice, I'd also recommend checking the film gate for dirt along the edge guide to reduce the excessive horizontal weave. Are you transferring assembled cut neg? If so it might be worth leaving longer heads & tails to improve vertical stability. Lastly you could try and reduce your scanning speed to see if this improves overall stability. A well maintained Spirit4K should give acceptable stability. Regards Martin Martin Parsons Head of Imaging MPC Soho, London www.moving-picture.com From rob at colorist.org Mon Nov 3 20:01:13 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 22:01:13 +0200 Subject: [Tig] 2 new ads on classifieds Message-ID: <9CFC85A0-8905-47A2-9443-FC92445BF9EE@colorist.org> new ads on classifieds: scanning operator Rascal etc. for sale http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rickpags at yahoo.com Mon Nov 3 20:09:05 2008 From: rickpags at yahoo.com (wbpags) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:09:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Tig] Red channel missing In-Reply-To: <43298eae0811031119j2501614dpaea181af7a4f8837@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <154078.28128.qm@web55005.mail.re4.yahoo.com> No, don't have that plug in. It's pretty much what all the feedback I've have gotten leads to, that being, some things that are broke cannot be fixed. It's a dead beastie and cannot be resurrected no matter how many tools are in the emergency kit. Personally, I have quite a fondness for black and white though I don't think the client's client sees it quite that way. Hey we do what we can but as with everything there are limitations. Thanks to everyone for all the feedback. I was expecting the outcome to be what it is and prefaced that to the client from the beginning. Had to give it the old college try though. --- Jeff Olm wrote: > Rick, > Did the Furnace Channel repair plug-in on Smoke help > you? > Just wondering. > Jeff Olm > From jfmann at optimum.net Mon Nov 3 20:45:22 2008 From: jfmann at optimum.net (Jim Mann) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 15:45:22 -0500 Subject: [Tig] spirit4K jitter In-Reply-To: References: <490e70cc.034c6e0a.0de7.ffffe368@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000301c93df5$23fd8970$6bf89c50$@net> Jim Houston wrote: >For horizontal movement, that is more than the Spirit 'spec', however >it is consistent with what other units produce. >Alignment of the film path is important, and so is making certain >there is no dirt at all on the capstan. I agree with Jim here ....and would also mention: Check that the Ceramic Film Positioner in the back of the gate for cleanliness, for this is the surface that the Keykode side of the film rides and is mostly responsible for Horizontal movement. Also clean the two Stainless guide rollers on the other side of the gate. These are spring loaded to hold the film against the Ceramic film guide. Turn these guys, inspect for any crud and check for freedom of movement. In fact checking all the film rollers that they turn freely is a fine idea. I have found my share of dried up bearings. Good Luck. Jim Jim Mann Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist [ POSTWORKS ] NEW YORK 100 Avenue of Americas, 10th Floor New York, NY 10013 T 212 894 4000 F 212 941 0439 http://www.postworks.com http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/User:Jim_Mann Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. From jfmann at optimum.net Mon Nov 3 21:08:56 2008 From: jfmann at optimum.net (Jim Mann) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 16:08:56 -0500 Subject: [Tig] spirit4K jitter In-Reply-To: References: <490e70cc.034c6e0a.0de7.ffffe368@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000401c93df8$62997e20$27cc7a60$@net> Jim Houston wrote: >For horizontal movement, that is more than the Spirit 'spec', however >it is consistent with what other units produce. >Alignment of the film path is important, and so is making certain >there is no dirt at all on the capstan. I agree with Jim here ....and would also mention: Check that the Ceramic Film Positioner in the back of the gate for cleanliness, for this is the surface that the Keykode side of the film rides and is mostly responsible for Horizontal movement. Also clean the two Stainless guide rollers on the other side of the gate. These are spring loaded to hold the film against the Ceramic film guide. Turn these guys, inspect for any crud and check for freedom of movement. In fact checking all the film rollers that they turn freely is a fine idea. I have found my share of dried up bearings. Good Luck. Jim Jim Mann Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist [ POSTWORKS ] NEW YORK 100 Avenue of Americas, 10th Floor New York, NY 10013 T 212 894 4000 F 212 941 0439 http://www.postworks.com http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/User:Jim_Mann Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. From chili.styles at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 22:13:16 2008 From: chili.styles at gmail.com (Bojan Mastilovic) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 23:13:16 +0100 Subject: [Tig] what stock to print on? Message-ID: <198fc9800811031413h27fb17d5uafead6ac14cf9444@mail.gmail.com> Hello, maybe this is not a right list to ask, but you probably know who to ask... I am working on a film restoration project on a old b/w film. The client wants to put it back to film when we finish. Until now, we always recorded movies on a Kodak 5242 internegative, or Fuji F-64D. Regarding this is a black and white, is there any film stock that is used for that? thanks in advance, -- Bojan Mastilovic Producer Restart Production www.restart.si From adolfo at newhat.tv Tue Nov 4 06:59:45 2008 From: adolfo at newhat.tv (Adolfo Martinelli) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 22:59:45 -0800 Subject: [Tig] spirit4K jitter In-Reply-To: <490e70cc.034c6e0a.0de7.ffffe368@mx.google.com> References: <490e70cc.034c6e0a.0de7.ffffe368@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <99672649-1629-4785-B8D7-F81352B26739@newhat.tv> Hi Liao, I had a similar problem on a Spirit 2K last year that was way past it's spec/tolerances for jitter. We tried cleaning and realigning every piece in the path. In the end, it turned out to be a failing FAN that was vibrating the image similar to what you are describing. Good luck tracking down the problem... Adolfo Martinelli Colorist New Hat On Nov 2, 2008, at 7:32 PM, Liao Zhuodi wrote: > We are using our Spirit4K scanning some VFX shots in 2K resolution > for 35mm negative, I scan them at 20 to 24 Fps speed. The .dpx files > are jittering a little bit, in both horizontal and vertical > directions, around 2-4 pixels jitter between each frame. Is that the > machine’s tolerance or something wrong with my operation? > > Liao.zd at gmail.com From richard at filmlight.ltd.uk Tue Nov 4 09:24:04 2008 From: richard at filmlight.ltd.uk (Richard Kirk) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 09:24:04 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Red channel missing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <491014B4.4070500@filmlight.ltd.uk> >> Special purpose software could estimate a red channel based on the >> individual pixel values which achieve a median black/white intensity >> level. For example, if you had an image of an 18% gray card, then it >> should be possible to compute a red channel which provides a fairly >> nutural color balance even if colors are not accurate. >> > > I don't see how this is possible, unless your software has significant > knowledge of the scene you are trying to fix. > > Imagine the 18% graycard senerio, add in the pale hand of a Scandinavian > grip holding the greycard and a red UK telephone box in the background. > > If you correct the greycard the hand will be far too red and the telephone > box will be almost Cyan. > > I don't see how this can be fixed without a human operator painting > the reds back into the scene; or as somone else suggested, go for > Monochrome. > I understand most of the interview is talking heads. This is not a Sony advert with lots of plasticene rabbits galloping past. I expect most of the backround is fairly constant. Provided the same people are in shot all the time, it should be possible to get an idea of the colour from the frames at the beginning and end with luck. Motion detection and flow degraining uses a piecewise correlation for of one frame to another. It would not be unreasonable to try stretching one of the early frames to fit one of the frames with the missing red, based on the other two channels, and then to pinch the red from the stretched image. If the blue had gone missing, I bet this would work, but red is a lot tougher. That being said, this isn't something that is currently available on Baselight, and I doubt if there is enough video with a partially missing red channel out there to make a product viable. If the scene is static, it might be better to generate a colour transfom based on picked colours in the image. Provided there are no strong colours that match in blue and green but differ in the red, you might get away with that. I have made an infra-red film look based on RGB data - it cannot have proper infra-red of course, but we do manage to get the ghostly white on foliage by other means. You can make transforms with the Truelight viewer. There may be complications because your input is effectively one-dimensions, so we may have to make some extra points to span the data space effectively. I have never tried this sort of thing, but it feels pretty easy so it might be worth a go. If you are interested, then send me a frame with the red, and one without, and I might have a quick hack, other work permitting. Cheers. Richard Kirk -- FilmLight Ltd. Tel: +44 (0)20 7292 0400 or 0409 224 (direct) Artists House, Fax: +44 (0)20 7292 0401 14-15 Manette Street London W1D 4AP From martin-p at moving-picture.com Tue Nov 4 11:28:14 2008 From: martin-p at moving-picture.com (Martin Parsons) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:28:14 -0000 Subject: [Tig] what stock to print on? In-Reply-To: <198fc9800811031413h27fb17d5uafead6ac14cf9444@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB56F0@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> > I am working on a film restoration project on a old b/w film. > The client wants to put it back to film when we finish. > Until now, we always recorded movies on a Kodak 5242 internegative, or > Fuji F-64D. Regarding this is a black and white, is there any film stock > that is used for that? I remember this subject cropping up last year - looking at the TIG archives: http://tig.colorist.org/pipermail/tig/2007-May/date.html under the subject "Colour to Black and White". The first part of the thread covers striking a print on B&W stock from a colour digital neg. But it then moves onto shooting out onto B&W neg. stock. Good luck ! Martin Martin Parsons Head of Imaging MPC Soho, London www.moving-picture.com From rob at cinelab.com Tue Nov 4 13:46:16 2008 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 08:46:16 -0500 Subject: [Tig] what stock to print on? In-Reply-To: <198fc9800811031413h27fb17d5uafead6ac14cf9444@mail.gmail.com> References: <198fc9800811031413h27fb17d5uafead6ac14cf9444@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <380AB80B-10CA-4A91-A0CB-62C665399CEF@cinelab.com> > Regarding this is a black and white, is there any film stock that is > used > for that? You could shoot to 5231 80iso B+W camera negative or there is 2234 which is a fine grain dupe neg film on estar base. using one of these stocks has long term advantage as a archival master you can then contact print to 2302 estar base print film which is a fine grain B+W release stock. If you stay on estar base B+W stock for your elements and prints you can assume at least several hundred years of longevity and probably more. -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Filmmaker Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From simon at rpsfilmimaging.co.uk Tue Nov 4 13:48:23 2008 From: simon at rpsfilmimaging.co.uk (Simon Burley) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 13:48:23 -0000 (GMT) Subject: [Tig] what stock to print on? In-Reply-To: <198fc9800811031413h27fb17d5uafead6ac14cf9444@mail.gmail.com> References: <198fc9800811031413h27fb17d5uafead6ac14cf9444@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <54156.78.105.3.225.1225806503.squirrel@mx.rpsfilmimaging.co.uk> > Regarding this is a black and white, is there any film stock that is used > for that? I have filmed out several B+W projects on Kodak 5231. Simon -- Simon Burley RPS Film Imaging Ltd ** Please note new telephone number below ** T: +44 (0) 208 661 9900 M: +44 (0) 7702 732 655 e: simon at rpsfilmimaging.co.uk From rob at colorist.org Wed Nov 5 10:02:40 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 12:02:40 +0200 Subject: [Tig] questions from Hugh Waters References: Message-ID: <2F022242-1F34-472E-A375-59AC116EFAC2@colorist.org> I've retitled this message so as to make it look less like spam (original title was "CPD and Professional Certifications.") Multi-question polls of the TIG for commercial purposes have been less than successful in the past, as they consume time and resources and ask for input without offering output. I asked Hugh to summarize responses to the group, or, feel free if you're responding, to respond to the group, as we could compile the results for TIG use. Hugh is a longtime TIGer and I'm sure he'll be glad to give some feedback on the responses. regards Rob TIG admin/founder Begin forwarded message: > From: tig-bounces at colorist.org > Date: November 5, 2008 11:58:00 AM GMT+02:00 > To: rob at colorist.org > Subject: Forward of moderated message > > > From: "Hugh Waters" > Date: November 5, 2008 11:53:07 AM GMT+02:00 > To: > Subject: CPD & Professional Certifications > Reply-To: > > > Dear all, > > I'm doing a bit of research work looking at the future of engineers > and > technicians here in the UK and around the world, part of which is > looking at > continuous professional development (CPD), professional > qualifications and > certifications and how they are used and viewed by technologists in > broadcast and the wider creative media industries. > > I wondered whether any fellow TIG dwellers might let me have their > thoughts > on the following: > > 1. Do you hold any professional certificates or qualifications (I'm > thinking > of things you have done since leaving full time education and > starting your > career)? > > 2. Do you see any point in holding a certificate of any type, and if > so what > would it be? > > 3. continuous professional development (CPD) > a) Do you engage in any formal CPD (even if it does not result in a > certificate)? > b) Do you see CPD as 'deliberate self investment' or 'just something > you get with experience'? > c) Do you pay for your own CPD or do you expect your employer to > provide it for you? > > 4. Society of Broadcast Engineers (SBE) (USA) > a) Have you heard of the SBE? > b) If so, are you, or do you know anyone who is a member? > c) Do you/they find it useful/valuable? > d) Do you feel it is purely US focussed or are any of you > international members? > > 5. Media Industry Technologist Certificate (MITC) (Australia) > a)Have you heard of the MITC? > b)If so, are you, or do you know anyone who has applied for or > achieved a MITC qualification? > c)Do you/they find it useful/valuable. > > 6. Do you know of any other engineer/technologists certificates in > other > countries that people working in broadcast, post productions, > interactive > media etc, aspire to holding, or are obliged to hold? > > 7. IT engineering > a)Do you hold any IT related certificates? > b)What IT related certificates do you think should be held by > engineers wanting to work in broadcast, post productions, > interactive media > etc in the future? > > I appreciate there are a lot of questions and I would be most > grateful for > anyone who takes the time to let me have their thoughts. > > Kind regards > > Hugh > ----------------------------- > Hugh James Waters > Waters Technical Services > 07801 053248 > 01453549048 > hugh at hjwaters.co.uk > www.hjwaters.co.uk > > > > -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From ilampooranan at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 12:40:55 2008 From: ilampooranan at gmail.com (ilampooranan) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:10:55 +0530 Subject: [Tig] Pin-Registration Message-ID: <4dcf01fc0811050440p3e69e96cicd6f2af50a6ca075@mail.gmail.com> Dear Sir / Madam, We have pin-registration problem in our scanner, i want to know more about pin-registration(how to check through software). so kindly suggest me if any software can do this.? frames i have in tiff, tga,dpx format. so kindly suggest us. Regards, IP From hugh at hjwaters.co.uk Wed Nov 5 15:53:38 2008 From: hugh at hjwaters.co.uk (Hugh Waters) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:53:38 -0000 Subject: [Tig] Hugh Waters Questions In-Reply-To: <198fc9800811031413h27fb17d5uafead6ac14cf9444@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <67473E9CAD8B4F6A86197A2E790A4357@WTS03> Just to make things a tad easier for people, I have knocked together a SurveyMonkey questionaire, which might be simpler to do than annotate my original questions. www.hjwaters.co.uk/questions The background to this is that across the globe the average age of engineers is nearing 50 (I'm 51) and it seems there are not enough youngsters coming through from schools and universities to replace us as we fade away. In Australia they have recently set up MITC (www.mitc.tv) with the central aim of kickstarting a culture of learning amongst the broadcast engineering community, which in turn they hope will stimulate the training industry and finally to start bringing suitably trained newcomers into the industry. I am looking at MITC, SBE and any other similar schemes across the globe to see what we can do to make sure there is a continuous flow of suitable engineering talent once our tweakers are on in their display cases over the fireplace. You can find the survey here: www.hjwaters.co.uk/questions Many thanks for taking the time to bother! I'll share the results once I've had a few responses. I've had 2 back so far... only 2019 to go ;) Hugh ----------------------------- Hugh James Waters Waters Technical Services 07801 053248 01453549048 hugh at hjwaters.co.uk www.hjwaters.co.uki3 From bob.micheletti at nbcuni.com Wed Nov 5 20:56:53 2008 From: bob.micheletti at nbcuni.com (Micheletti, Bob (NBC Universal)) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 12:56:53 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Pin-Registration In-Reply-To: <4dcf01fc0811050440p3e69e96cicd6f2af50a6ca075@mail.gmail.com> References: <4dcf01fc0811050440p3e69e96cicd6f2af50a6ca075@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7E83FFCD85919542AB2BEAFFC0004C661DA65C60@UCTMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com> What kind of scanner? Electronic "pin registered" or real pin registered? What kind of problems? Horizontal or vertical movement? One corner or the whole frame? What kind of film? 35mm MP, 8mm home movies, old shrunken 70mm prints? What would you like to check through software? Frame to frame differences of actual position? Bob Micheletti Engineer, Universal Pictures Hollywood > -----Original Message----- > From: tig-bounces at colorist.org > [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of ilampooranan > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 4:41 AM > To: tig at colorist.org > Subject: [Tig] Pin-Registration > > 2021 subscribers as of November 2008 > Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG > www.flandersscientific.com http://reels.colorist.org ==== > > > Dear Sir / Madam, > > We have pin-registration problem in our scanner, i want to > know more about pin-registration(how to check through > software). so kindly suggest me if any software can do this.? > > frames i have in tiff, tga,dpx format. so kindly suggest us. > > Regards, > > IP > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > From rob at colorist.org Wed Nov 5 22:58:49 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:58:49 +0200 Subject: [Tig] 4k monitors question Message-ID: <599A8A5B-E109-4022-BDFC-47E4433EC29D@colorist.org> the following is posted for Alan Rosenfeld who can be reached at the address just below this line. From: Alan Rosenfeld Date: November 6, 2008 12:55:50 AM GMT+02:00 To: Tig Group Subject: FW: Need an opinion I need some help. I’d like to know what any of you think of 4K monitors such as the type linked below. Would the quad DVI inputs be sufficient or would SDI be preferable or in addition to. Please feel free to reply to me privately or, if of general interest to the group, reply here on the list. http://www.astro-systems.com/DM-3400/dm_3400_page1.html Thanks in advance, AlanRosenfeld alanr at bhphotovideo.com From carl at stopp.se Thu Nov 6 12:31:55 2008 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 13:31:55 +0100 Subject: [Tig] LCD GradeA monitor Gamma Message-ID: Hi I had the chance to get a propper Demo of Barco's. It looked very nice, but when we compared it to our Sony BVM-32 we noticed that the gamma was lifted on the LCD. Showing in skintones beeing more milky. We found a setting for Gamma preset to 2,35. It was possible to change it, and we set to about 2,2 it matched better to the CRT. I then browsed the net and found a document called: EBU guidelines for Consumer Flat Panel Displays (FPDs) in that it says that the Gamma should be 2,35 Could it be that the Gamma for GradeA CRT monitors are diferent to LCD's? If EBU is recomending 2,35 for consumer monitors then I gues the GradeA LCD should also be 2,35. But how come its so diferent to my CRT? Have anyone els any experience in GradeA LCD's in a GradeSuite or is everyone still using CRT's for grading? /carl Carl Skaff _____________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 22 From walterforsberg at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 16:41:18 2008 From: walterforsberg at gmail.com (Walter Forsberg) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:41:18 -0600 Subject: [Tig] HDCAM-SR Qs In-Reply-To: <6b3371320811060832w48716140je5059ef19c11fa81@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b3371320811060832w48716140je5059ef19c11fa81@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b3371320811060841q1016d9easabcdc91531ca465a@mail.gmail.com> Hi Mr. Northrop: I'm a graduate student in one of Chris Lacinak's classes at the NYU Moving Image Archiving & Preservation programme with a question for you. I'm currently working on a research project about the HDCAM-SR format and wanted to speak with someone intimately involved with its use in a workflow. Obviously, Chris suggested I speak with you. I was wondering if I might be able to arrange a phone call with you, for fifteen minutes or so, to go over some issues that I don't really have personal access to, given the format's use at the higher-end of the production scale. Hilariously, I don't presently have a telephone # but perhaps we could arrange a time in the next few weeks to chat on my nickel. Thanks for any help, Walter Forsberg. From rob at colorist.org Thu Nov 6 16:51:42 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 18:51:42 +0200 Subject: [Tig] HDCAM-SR Qs In-Reply-To: <6b3371320811060841q1016d9easabcdc91531ca465a@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b3371320811060832w48716140je5059ef19c11fa81@mail.gmail.com> <6b3371320811060841q1016d9easabcdc91531ca465a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Nov 6, 2008, at 6:41 PM, Walter Forsberg wrote: > Hilariously, I don't presently have a telephone # Some, including me, might find that refreshing. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From dcorbitt77 at comcast.net Thu Nov 6 17:22:13 2008 From: dcorbitt77 at comcast.net (dcorbitt77 at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 17:22:13 +0000 Subject: [Tig] LCD GradeA monitor Gamma Message-ID: <110620081722.10493.491327C5000A8654000028FD2200762194C9C99B9B070D9D010C0B@comcast.net> Carl, In my work with LCD's, Plasma monitors, and Sony BVM CRT monitors, I was able to get a better match to the standard properly calibrated Sony BVM by using a gamma of 2.4 to 2.5 on the flat panel monitors. The higher the number the more contrasty will be the display so a gamma of 2.2 will tend to have more elevated mid-tones than one set to 2.5. Sony BVM CRT monitors normally will have a gamma of approximately 2.45. Make sure your CRT monitor is properly calibrated. A slight elevation of black levels in the monitor can throw off the apparent gamma of the display if you are doing a visual match. Also remember that LCD's and some Plasma displays will not be able to give blacks as dark as a CRT monitor that has been properly calibrated and viewed in a dimly lit environment. Using a sensitive light meter or CRT analyzer will help set the dark levels and evaluate the monitor's performance. Another problem with some flat panels displays (both Plasma and LCD) is the color points of the primaries. Sony BVMs had or have color primaries close to SMPTE C recommendations (not perfect Rec 709 but close). Most flat panels, whether they are LCD or Plasma will have a wider color gamut with their RGB color points outside of the Rec 709 triangle. If your monitor does not have some way to bring the displayed color gamut in to Rec 709, you will most likely have some odd looking over saturated colors compared to the BVM. Some kind of color management such as built in LUT's or correction matrices are a very desirable feature for any display that has RGB color points outside of the Rec 709 spec. Dave Corbitt Freelance engineer Summit, NJ -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Carl Skaff > > Hi > I had the chance to get a propper Demo of Barco's. It looked very nice, but when > we compared it to our Sony BVM-32 we noticed that the gamma was lifted on the > LCD. Showing in skintones beeing more milky. > > We found a setting for Gamma preset to 2,35. It was possible to change it, and > we set to about 2,2 it matched better to the CRT. > > I then browsed the net and found a document called: > EBU guidelines for Consumer Flat Panel Displays (FPDs) > in that it says that the Gamma should be 2,35 > > Could it be that the Gamma for GradeA CRT monitors are diferent to LCD's? > If EBU is recomending 2,35 for consumer monitors then I gues the GradeA LCD > should also be 2,35. But how come its so diferent to my CRT? > > Have anyone els any experience in GradeA LCD's in a GradeSuite or is everyone > still using CRT's for grading? > > /carl > > > Carl Skaff From terry at finishedit.com Thu Nov 6 18:14:01 2008 From: terry at finishedit.com (Terry Lockhart) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 13:14:01 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Tig Digest, Vol 104, Issue 3 (4k displays) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Alan, Tig'ers I have a Sony SRX-R105 4k projector in one of our rooms, which aside form the display technology itself, has essentially the same signal input issues as your Astro 4k LCD display. Here are my observations: 1) First off, most of the time the display will get used for HD at 1920x1080, and standard HDsdi is essential (least hassle) for that. Further, Dual-link 4:4:4 RGB gets used frequently when displaying HDcamSR material, as well as output from our Pablo or daVinci 2k+. Obviously such an input source needs to be internally upscaled to fill the screen, as well as at native 1:1 resolutions for critical image evaluations. Optimal handling of 23.98/24fps material in both true progressive and segmented frame modes is a basic requirement, without inserting 2:3 pulldown. This would require a 24, 48, 72, or 120 hz refresh. At some point in time support for 3G single link RGB 4:4:4 will be necessary. Although not used much, a 4:4:4 YCrCb mode should be available as well. 2) Internal upscaling of SD 525/625 and 1280x720 must be pristeen, in such a way that full resolution of the display is utilized. The reality is the real world requires us to deal with the low end too, and to be able to evaluate downconverts in a consistent environment. Only one display can be front and center in the client's sweet spot. Therefore, scaling interpolation all the way down to the native pixel level of the whole screen is important. That is to say, for example, SD (anamorphic) should be scaled optimally direct to 3840x2160, not 1920x1080 and then pixel/line doubled. 3) Full frame 2k 2048x1556p24(sf) should be supported without the need for external scaling, via a dual link HDsdi or 3G input. Frequently such source material will require an anamorphic squeeze to one of several common aspects. The ability to manually input non- standard scaling parameters is useful. Limiting input range to the customary 2048x1080 DCI is not sufficient, especially since optimal scaling to the full resolution of the display is desirable. I suppose for dealing with a playout from a broad selection of sources (which may not have HSDsdi), this format should also be supported via a dual DVI input. 4) For the times we have the opportunity to display native 4k material, quad dual DVI, quad dual link HDsdi, and quad 3G sdi should be available. Potential sources might be synchronized multiple videotapes, or tandem playout servers, as well as servers/ workstations with native 4k playout capability. Also I suppose it's only a matter of time before someone creates a 4k playout machine with a quad HDMI output- so that might also be a consideration. 5) It would be nice to have optional LUT support in all modes, 3-d if possible. 6) Finally, I would also note that a daVinci 2k color corrector running in data mode has a single hi-res analog component (RGBHV) monitoring output set, therefore a single analog input capability that drives all 4 display quadrants would be useful. Hope this helps. I'm afraid many of my thoughts are only dreaming at the moment. Disclaimer - I wish I had the $$ for more complete monitoring and display solutions. Unfortunately I don't have any connections with daVinci, Sony or Astro other than being in-house user support for my operators in the trenches. -- Terry Lockhart Chief Engineer/IT manager Finish Editorial 162 Columbus Ave. Boston, Ma 02116-5222 direct/vm 617 850 6133 main 617 292 0082 or 850 6100 fax 617 292 0083 cel 617 775 3195 In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different. -- Larry McVoy On Nov 5, 2008, at 5:59 PM, tig-request at colorist.org wrote: ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:58:49 +0200 From: Rob Lingelbach Subject: [Tig] 4k monitors question To: TIG Group Message-ID: <599A8A5B-E109-4022-BDFC-47E4433EC29D at colorist.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes the following is posted for Alan Rosenfeld who can be reached at the address just below this line. From: Alan Rosenfeld Date: November 6, 2008 12:55:50 AM GMT+02:00 To: Tig Group Subject: FW: Need an opinion I need some help. I?d like to know what any of you think of 4K monitors such as the type linked below. Would the quad DVI inputs be sufficient or would SDI be preferable or in addition to. Please feel free to reply to me privately or, if of general interest to the group, reply here on the list. http://www.astro-systems.com/DM-3400/dm_3400_page1.html Thanks in advance, AlanRosenfeld alanr at bhphotovideo.com From martin-p at moving-picture.com Thu Nov 6 18:23:24 2008 From: martin-p at moving-picture.com (Martin Parsons) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 18:23:24 -0000 Subject: [Tig] LCD GradeA monitor Gamma In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB5730@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> > I then browsed the net and found a document called: > EBU guidelines for Consumer Flat Panel Displays (FPDs) > in that it says that the Gamma should be 2,35 Hi Carl I've had similar results to yours in matching Grade 1 LCDs to CRTs and have found that a gamma of 2.2 does seem practically to match better. I think the clue to this is in that document you refer to: http://www.ebu.ch/CMSimages/en/tec_doc_t3320-2008_tcm6-50985.pdf In appendix A at the end on page 19, the EBU states: "Since a pure gamma curve would require infinite gain to be applied to camera signals near black, resulting in unacceptable noise; in practice this curve is modified to consist of a small linear region near black in combination with a reduced gamma curve of 0.45." So what they are saying is that the gamma consists of a linear portion plus a reduced gamma curve of 0.45 (inverse is 2.2) I think it is this reduced curve on the CRT that we are looking at when we try to match an LCD to a CRT - not the linear portion. We don't lookdown into the very black levels when we match - but the mid tones and high blacks and highlights. Hence we assume a gamma of 2.2 matches the best. I also came across this Sony document in which they refer to gamma as being 2.2. http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/files/mkt/broadcast/brochures/proDisp lays.pdf All the best Martin Martin Parsons Head of Imaging MPC Soho, London www.moving-picture.com From rob at colorist.org Thu Nov 6 19:26:22 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 21:26:22 +0200 Subject: [Tig] house of sand and fog Message-ID: <2ADAF361-D717-43BF-8CD7-6DFDD8AC33AE@colorist.org> Who did the grading for video of House and Sand and Fog? I recently worked with the Director, Vadim Perelman, on a series of commercials. The feature named above is exquisite. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From hugh at hjwaters.co.uk Fri Nov 7 00:36:24 2008 From: hugh at hjwaters.co.uk (Hugh Waters) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 00:36:24 -0000 Subject: [Tig] Hugh Waters Questions In-Reply-To: <67473E9CAD8B4F6A86197A2E790A4357@WTS03> Message-ID: Looking forward to sharing the results of my little survey with you all. We have had 20 people do the survey so far (www.hjwaters.co.uk/questions - if you haven't done it yet) from the USA, UK, Budapest, Canada and Australia so far. I must also apologise for using jargon (What? On the TIG? Surely not?!) CPD means, in this context, Continuing Professional Development. Well at least it was a TLA... Hugh PS (I've left the original message below because it contains background info on why I'm conducting the survey) PPS www.hjwaters.co.uk/questions -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org Sent: 05 November 2008 15:54 To: tig at tig.colorist.org Subject: [Tig] Hugh Waters Questions Just to make things a tad easier for people, I have knocked together a SurveyMonkey questionaire, which might be simpler to do than annotate my original questions. www.hjwaters.co.uk/questions The background to this is that across the globe the average age of engineers is nearing 50 (I'm 51) and it seems there are not enough youngsters coming through from schools and universities to replace us as we fade away. In Australia they have recently set up MITC (www.mitc.tv) with the central aim of kickstarting a culture of learning amongst the broadcast engineering community, which in turn they hope will stimulate the training industry and finally to start bringing suitably trained newcomers into the industry. I am looking at MITC, SBE and any other similar schemes across the globe to see what we can do to make sure there is a continuous flow of suitable engineering talent once our tweakers are on in their display cases over the fireplace. You can find the survey here: www.hjwaters.co.uk/questions Many thanks for taking the time to bother! I'll share the results once I've had a few responses. I've had 2 back so far... only 2019 to go ;) Hugh ----------------------------- Hugh James Waters Waters Technical Services 07801 053248 01453549048 hugh at hjwaters.co.uk www.hjwaters.co.uki3 _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From ted at tedlangdell.com Fri Nov 7 13:24:27 2008 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 08:24:27 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Hugh Waters Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Hugh, This is a heck of an cause. If you'd like, I can pass your survey on to some SBE and SMPTE presidents in California and ask them to circulate it. I'm in Atlanta calling on a major post house, which has an engineering intern, interestingly. I'll ask some questions about how that came about, and forward the survey to the DoE there. Now I'm curious about whether other post houses or broadcasters in the Atlanta area have interns, and where they come from. Happy to report Senior Colorist DC Cardinali is alive and well in Atlanta enjoying long-form projects. Ted On Nov 6, 2008, at 7:36 PM, Hugh Waters wrote: > The background to this is that across the globe the average age of > engineers > is nearing 50 (I'm 51) and it seems there are not enough youngsters > coming > through from schools and universities to replace us as we fade away. > > In Australia they have recently set up MITC (www.mitc.tv) with the > central > aim of kickstarting a culture of learning amongst the broadcast > engineering > community, which in turn they hope will stimulate the training > industry and > finally to start bringing suitably trained newcomers into the > industry. > > I am looking at MITC, SBE and any other similar schemes across the > globe to > see what we can do to make sure there is a continuous flow of suitable > engineering talent once our tweakers are on in their display cases > over the > fireplace. Ted Langdell flashscan8.us 209 East 12th Street Marysville, CA 95901 Main: (530) 741-1212 Cell: (530) 301-2931 Representing yada, yada, and yada which to say more might be considered advertising on the TIG. :( From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 7 20:56:29 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 22:56:29 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Remembering Jerry Wheaton References: <3E8B4D632A7EDF41BCFA0EEAC75AD5A005EF7902@tpgmail2.postgroup.com> Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > From: "Bob Wilson" > Date: November 7, 2008 10:54:27 PM GMT+02:00 > To: "Rob Lingelbach" > Subject: FW: Remembering Jerry Wheaton > > Hi Rob, > I haven’t seen this on the TIG so I thought I would forward it to > you to see if you wanted to post it. Jerry was so instrumental in > building Evertz Tracker equipment. He will be missed. > > Bob > > From: Alan Lambshead [mailto:alan at evertz.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:01 PM > To: Alan Lambshead > Subject: Remembering Jerry Wheaton > > Here is a copy of the online obituary that has been posted for Jerry > Wheaton > > WHEATON, Gerald David “Jerry” - Passed away unexpectedly on Monday, > November 3, 2008, at the age of 51. > Loved by his wife Lynn, his sons Matt and Kyle, his mother Dorothy > and his father the late Don, his brother Dan and wife Annemarie. > Jerry was also loved, and will be greatly missed, by his extended > family, many friends, and co-workers. > > A Service of Remembrance will be held at Compass Point Bible Church > - Eaglesfield Campus, 2501 Eaglesfield Drive,Burlington, > on Saturday, November 8, 2008, at 2 p.m., with a reception to > follow. (Arrangements entrusted to Smith’s Funeral Home, 905-632-3333) > > You can view the online obituary and leave a message of condolences at > http://brant.smithsfh.com/Obituary.asp?id=3500 > > I talked to his wife Lynn last evening and she told me that the > coroners report showed Jerry’s left main coronary artery was over > 75% blocked. > The heart went into arrhythmia and then just stopped. The coroner > said he was probably unconscious before he hit the floor, so he > would not have > had any warning, and probably did not suffer any pain. > Regards, > > Alan > ____________________________________ > Alan Lambshead, VP Engineering > Evertz Microsystems Ltd. > Email: alan at evertz.com > Web: http://www.evertz.com > Phone: 905-335-3700 Ext. 236 > > From: "Alan Lambshead" > Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 15:15:36 -0500 > To: > Subject: Jerry Wheaton > It is with a sense of tremendous loss and sadness that I announce to > you the passing of my dear friend and colleague Jerry Wheaton. > > Jerry passed away suddenly and unexpectedly last evening November 3. > > Jerry has been employed at Evertz since 1986, and has been a > tremendous asset to the engineering group throughout that time and > has been instrumental in the development of our Telecine Post > production and Camera adapter product lines among others > > > > Jerry is survived by his wife of 26 years Lynn, his two sons Matt > (who also works in R & D at Evertz) and Kyle, his mother Dorothy and > his brother Dan. > > I will send a follow-up email when the full obituary is available. > > > Regards, > > Alan > ____________________________________ > Alan Lambshead, VP Engineering > Evertz Microsystems Ltd. > Email: alan at evertz.com > Web: http://www.evertz.com > Phone: 905-335-3700 Ext. 236 > -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From ted at tedlangdell.com Sat Nov 8 01:27:37 2008 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 20:27:37 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD/Nitrate Identification and Handling Guide References: <8CB0F1592F3EF45-898-C58@FWM-D16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: With the interest that developed after my earlier post about problems transferring shrunken nitrate on a Spirit, I thought I'd update you on how that went. And pass on—with the author's permission—a post regarding a Nitrate Handling Guide by the Nitrate Interest Group of the Association of Moving Image Archivists. About the Nitrate reel, Jeff Joseph of SabuCat Productions reports success! "Same lab. We had the idea of flipping the film to "B" wind and trying it, but before we tried that, we tried it backwards... and it worked! It ran perfectly, and it was simple to just reverse the frame order after we got it on a hard drive. Looks great!" Jeff thanks everyone who responded. It was enlightening. Here's the post regarding the Nitrate ID and Handling Guide. Hope folks find this of use and of interest. Those near Savannah Nov. 12-15 may find other things of interest at the Association of Moving Image Archivists Conference. See http:// www.amiaconference.com. A number of colorists, telecine and quad engineers will be attending. An informal Quad/Telecine/Edit gathering or two is afoot at AMIA. Contact me off-list if interested. Enjoy your weekend. It's a rainy night in Georgia (USA) Ted Begin forwarded message: > From: Rachel Parker > Date: November 7, 2008 12:29:51 PM EST > To: AMIA-L at LSV.UKY.EDU > Subject: [AMIA-L] Nitrate Identification and Handling Guide > Reply-To: Association of Moving Image Archivists > > The Nitrate Film Interest Group is pleased to announce > that they have completed a much needed basic guide that illustrates > how to identify nitrate film as well as safety precautions and > hazards when dealing with nitrate. This document has been uploaded > as a pdf to the NFIG’s page within the AMIA website (http:// > www.amianet.org/groups/interest/nitrate/nitrate.php) . In addition > to these basic guidelines, the document also contains a contact > list of archives and labs that have agreed to be of service in > identifying and in some cases accepting nitrate film. Multiple > times every year the listserve is asked what facilities are able to > handle nitrate film and this document provides the contact > information for archives and labs around the world. > > I know that there are other facilities that would > benefit the list by being added as a contact, so if you belong to > one of these institutions and are interested in being added to this > list then please contact me at rparker at oscars.org . In the future > we hope to add pictures to help further illustrate some of the “how > to identify” pointers. If anyone has any of their own photos that > you believe would be helpful in achieving this then please feel > free to email them to me as well. > > There has also been the issue of nitrate being sold on > ebay or other open-listed resources. The Nitrate Film Interest > Group has put together paragraphs that can be copied and pasted in > messages to the buyer or seller of such items. These paragraphs are > at the bottom of this email and will soon be added to the NFIG > webpage in a pdf format. If anyone sees a posting regarding what is > believed to be nitrate film and they are concerned about one or > both parties being properly informed about correct handling, please > feel free to send the appropriate paragraph which has a link to the > newly finished “Identifying and Handling Nitrate Film” document > included. > > We would like to thank the numerous archives, > individuals and labs that have helped to put this document together > whether it be in proof-reading, providing information or allowing > your contact information to be added. > > Buying Nitrate Film? > > Hello, > If you are looking to buy nitrate film, please read the document > that is linked below. It was put together by an interest group > within the Association of Moving Image Archivists. Members of AMIA > routinely see auctions where the object of interest may be nitrate > film whether the seller is aware of it or not. While as film > archivists we are concerned with the film itself, our main concern > is your safety when dealing with material many governments deem as > hazardous. Nitrate film is highly flammable and therefore cannot be > legally shipped by conventional mail services. To learn more about > shipping and safety information, check out the link titled > Identifying and Handling Nitrate Film on the Association of Moving > Image Archivists site: http://www.amianet.org/groups/interest/ > nitrate/nitrate.php > If possible, ask your seller if they are aware of and comfortable > with the hazards and responsibilities of shipping nitrate film. > > Selling nitrate film? > > Hello, > By the description on your auction page, it has been noted that the > object you are looking to sell may be nitrate film. If this is > true, then please note that it is highly flammable and considered > by many countries to be hazardous material. Nitrate cannot be > legally shipped by a traditional standard postal or courier service > due to restrictions. Keep in mind that the shipper takes full > responsibility of the items shipped. You may wish to give the > purchaser this information and require him or her to either collect > the item in person. While as film archivists we are concerned with > the film itself, our main concern is your safety. Please check out > the document titled Identifying and Handling Nitrate Film on the > Association of Moving Image Archivists site: http://www.amianet.org/ > groups/interest/nitrate/nitrate.php > > Thank you, > The Nitrate Film Interest Group > > Rachel Parker > Film Archivist > Academy Film Archive > 1313 North Vine Street > Hollywood, CA 90028 > rparker at oscars.org Ted Langdell flashscan8.us 209 East 12th Street Marysville, CA 95901 Main: (530) 741-1212 Cell: (530) 301-2931 Call this number during AMIA, Nov. 10-16 Talk to us at AMIA 2008 about the gentle, realtime flashscan8, flashstransfer 16/35 digital film transfer systems and other products from the creative engineers at MWA Nova, Berlin. Please call to set an appointment. flashscan8.us online and growing From rob at colorist.org Sat Nov 8 15:27:15 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 17:27:15 +0200 Subject: [Tig] firefox - safari rendering difference. Message-ID: <9189D1FF-F76F-4257-9166-D66E58D626E3@colorist.org> This could be considered OT, but since we send our stills out to clients, this came up recently: I've noticed that Firefox and Safari differ in their treatment of embedded colorspace, in displaying images. What I save for web serving generally is sRGB, and it looks correct on Safari, but seems to have a different gamma, or decreased contrast, in Firefox. Is there any easy way around this, to allow people to use Firefox yet display sRGB in the way that Photoshop/Safari do? thanks in advance. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Sat Nov 8 17:52:40 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 19:52:40 +0200 Subject: [Tig] color management in browsers. Message-ID: Jamie Fraser pointed me to this excellent reference: http://www.gballard.net/psd.htm which goes on to say explicitly: SAFARI 3 for Windows XP Windows Vista Professional is released (the first color-managed browser for Windows PC) See It and FIREFOX 3 In Action WEB BROWSER Color Management Tutorial ---end quoted material--- well, i am edified. Safari recognizes ICC profiles, and now I am trying to determine what is the best method of saving images such that all browsers can see the same image characteristics that up to now I had only seen in Safari (because I had been saving an ICC profile with the image, that Safari understands). Bob Friesenhahn has been graciously helping me with GraphicsMagick arguments and options in order to strip or define the ICC profile. I would think, that this is an important subject for all of us, as we are constantly shipping stills to here and there. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder.colorist rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Sat Nov 8 18:03:59 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 20:03:59 +0200 Subject: [Tig] short answer. Message-ID: color management or not? I would opt for a browser that does color management, and for Mac that means Safari (i have no affiliation, and will reluctantly return to Safari after many months on Firefox). Or, strip your images of ICC color profiles, to orient them in the color/ contrast gamut that you've worked on so assiduously. I would like to know how these arguments apply to Windows. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Sat Nov 8 18:11:49 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 20:11:49 +0200 Subject: [Tig] short answer. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: here is the key portion of a paragraph found at a reference supplied by Jamie: --- If our monitor is profiled correctly, and our RGB .tif .jpg is tagged with an embedded profile, color-managed programs like Safari, iPhoto, Preview and Photoshop will display it correctly, and it will print correctly as long as the printer Honors the source embedded profile and Converts it to a good target printer profile. --- Rob: but for browser display, including all the variables between Macs and Windows and display vs. display, I would always opt for a color- managed browser, as it reduces the variables, if the image to be displayed has an embedded color profile, such as sRGB. please argue and point out the weaknesses in this argument. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From markrages at gmail.com Sat Nov 8 18:28:53 2008 From: markrages at gmail.com (Mark Rages) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 12:28:53 -0600 Subject: [Tig] short answer. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <74ee72ca0811081028k114ca109i7a4e7f57718b50e0@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 12:03 PM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > 2021 subscribers as of November 2008 > Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG > www.flandersscientific.com > http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > color management or not? I would opt for a browser that does color > management, and for Mac that means Safari (i have no affiliation, and will > reluctantly return to Safari after many months on Firefox). Or, strip your > images of ICC color profiles, to orient them in the color/contrast gamut > that you've worked on so assiduously. I would like to know how these > arguments apply to Windows. > > Rob Looks like FF3 has it, but it's off by default(?!). http://mozillalinks.org/wp/2007/08/color-management-support-added-to-firefox-3/ Regards, Mark markrages at gmail -- Mark Rages, Engineer Midwest Telecine LLC markrages at midwesttelecine.com From RPagliaroli at interfacemedia.com Tue Nov 11 17:30:45 2008 From: RPagliaroli at interfacemedia.com (Rick Pagliaroli) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 12:30:45 -0500 Subject: [Tig] CC and no CC References: <88A6141792425345941F4D2E9DF4B8B60165014B@mailserver.interfacevideo.com> Message-ID: <88A6141792425345941F4D2E9DF4B8B601650165@mailserver.interfacevideo.com> Hey, I thought some people might be interested in the outcome of my missing red channel dilema. Not the prettiest of images mind you but the client seems satisfied. Oh the horror... Rick "never tap out" Pags From RPagliaroli at interfacemedia.com Tue Nov 11 17:33:26 2008 From: RPagliaroli at interfacemedia.com (Rick Pagliaroli) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 12:33:26 -0500 Subject: [Tig] cc and no cc Message-ID: <88A6141792425345941F4D2E9DF4B8B601650166@mailserver.interfacevideo.com> And we're still doing the "can we get just a bit more" tweaks. Ah yeah... From owen at ywwg.com Tue Nov 11 17:53:14 2008 From: owen at ywwg.com (Owen Williams) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 12:53:14 -0500 Subject: [Tig] CC and no CC In-Reply-To: <88A6141792425345941F4D2E9DF4B8B601650165@mailserver.interfacevideo.com> References: <88A6141792425345941F4D2E9DF4B8B60165014B@mailserver.interfacevideo.com> <88A6141792425345941F4D2E9DF4B8B601650165@mailserver.interfacevideo.com> Message-ID: <1226425994.7869.82.camel@ywwg> On Tue, 2008-11-11 at 12:30 -0500, Rick Pagliaroli wrote: > > Hey, > > I thought some people might be interested in the outcome of my missing red channel dilema. > Not the prettiest of images mind you but the client seems satisfied. Oh the horror... I think the mailing list is eating the attachments. Perhaps put them on the forums? owen From rob at colorist.org Tue Nov 11 18:09:00 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:09:00 +0200 Subject: [Tig] CC and no CC In-Reply-To: <1226425994.7869.82.camel@ywwg> References: <88A6141792425345941F4D2E9DF4B8B60165014B@mailserver.interfacevideo.com> <88A6141792425345941F4D2E9DF4B8B601650165@mailserver.interfacevideo.com> <1226425994.7869.82.camel@ywwg> Message-ID: On Nov 11, 2008, at 7:53 PM, Owen Williams wrote: >> I thought some people might be interested in the outcome of >> my missing red channel dilema. >> Not the prettiest of images mind you but the client seems >> satisfied. Oh the horror... > > I think the mailing list is eating the attachments. Perhaps put > them on > the forums? there was no attachment or I would have been advised as admin. the wiki allows any kind of upload. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Tue Nov 11 19:57:47 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:57:47 +0200 Subject: [Tig] rating: quantum of solace Message-ID: <029B9D82-4C0D-44F2-9270-D17A0380CBE9@colorist.org> watching: if you like action... grading: very good. script: very poor, bordering on horrible. story almost unfathomable. impossible to follow, prove me wrong. story: horrible, see above. cinematography: excellent editing: poor. cuts inexplicable. action: excellent acting: fair (Craig: excellent, action scenes in air; excellent; Ukrainian actress Olga: excellent. casting: good dialog high point:= "take a deep breath, make if count" -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rlovejoy at comcast.net Tue Nov 11 20:33:13 2008 From: rlovejoy at comcast.net (rlovejoy at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:33:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tig] Modern time code In-Reply-To: <88A6141792425345941F4D2E9DF4B8B601650165@mailserver.interfacevideo.com> Message-ID: <693802276.801331226435593391.JavaMail.root@sz0138a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Now that we have entered the twenty first century, are there any plans afoot to bring time code along with us? I think it would be great if users could select 24 hour code or flip a switch and have 100 hour code. All those dailies that keep going around the clock and leading to headaches figuring out which 4 hour reel has what scenes could go by the boards. I'd say keep the legacy code for those who want time of day, but for big jobs like feature films 100 hour code could be pretty useful. I know it involves a bit of retooling, but it seems like a good idea to me. Bob Lovejoy Shooters Post & Transfer Philadelphia, PA From ted at tedlangdell.com Wed Nov 12 13:11:04 2008 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:11:04 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Quad/Telecine/Editor informal dinner at AMIA tonight (Wed 11/12) Message-ID: A number of Quad Videotape Group Members are attending the Association of Moving Image Archivists Conference in Savannah, this week. The group contains colorists, folks involved in telecine related ventures and those with experience or interest in Quad videotape, telecine and editing the way it used to be done. Click here to learn more, see pictures of last's night's informal dinner and find out where they're gathering for informal events 7:30p, Wednesday, Nov. 12: Informal dinner: Gather by the Concierge Desk in the Marriott lobby after the reception tonight in the adjoining Atrium. Contact Ted at (530) 301-2931 to RSVP. Last night was fun and a good walk. Ted Ted Langdell Ted Langdell Creative Broadcast Services Marysville, CA Main: (530) 741-1212 tedlangdell.com. Storytelling through Broadcast Coverage and Creative Services since 1974 From ted at tedlangdell.com Wed Nov 12 13:16:28 2008 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:16:28 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Quad/Telecine/Editor informal dinner at AMIA tonight (Wed 11/12)-Corrected Link Message-ID: (Repost-corrects link.) A number of Quad Videotape Group Members are attending the Association of Moving Image Archivists Conference in Savannah, this week. The group contains colorists, folks involved in telecine related ventures and those with experience or interest in Quad videotape, telecine and editing the way it used to be done. Click here to learn more, see pictures of last's night's informal dinner and find out where they're gathering for informal events 7:30p, Wednesday, Nov. 12: Informal dinner: Gather by the Concierge Desk in the Marriott lobby after the reception tonight in the adjoining Atrium. Contact Ted at (530) 301-2931 to RSVP. Last night was fun and a good walk. Ted Ted Langdell Ted Langdell Creative Broadcast Services Marysville, CA Main: (530) 741-1212 tedlangdell.com. Storytelling through Broadcast Coverage and Creative Services since 1974 From jeferder at cbs.com Wed Nov 12 14:36:27 2008 From: jeferder at cbs.com (Ferder, John E) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:36:27 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Modern time code Message-ID: <5DB90EE15892584BA9D2B25D1A9BF75E0AA1B589@NYBCNX01.cbs.ad.cbs.net> Bob: One of the tutorials at the SMPTE Fall Conference was delivered by Peter Symes, discussing the continuing work of the Joint SMPTE/EBU Task Force to revise and update the standards for time code. You can find more information at www.smpte.org. John E. Ferder Director, Studio & Post-Production Engineering CBS Broadcasting, Inc. ----- Original Message ----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org To: tig at colorist.org Sent: Tue Nov 11 15:33:13 2008 Subject: [Tig] Modern time code 2021 subscribers as of November 2008 Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG www.flandersscientific.com http://reels.colorist.org ==== Now that we have entered the twenty first century, are there any plans afoot to bring time code along with us? I think it would be great if users could select 24 hour code or flip a switch and have 100 hour code. All those dailies that keep going around the clock and leading to headaches figuring out which 4 hour reel has what scenes could go by the boards. I'd say keep the legacy code for those who want time of day, but for big jobs like feature films 100 hour code could be pretty useful. I know it involves a bit of retooling, but it seems like a good idea to me. Bob Lovejoy Shooters Post & Transfer Philadelphia, PA _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From jfmann at optimum.net Wed Nov 12 15:28:05 2008 From: jfmann at optimum.net (Jim Mann) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:28:05 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Modern time code In-Reply-To: <693802276.801331226435593391.JavaMail.root@sz0138a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <88A6141792425345941F4D2E9DF4B8B601650165@mailserver.interfacevideo.com> <693802276.801331226435593391.JavaMail.root@sz0138a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <000e01c944db$42f1a8b0$c8d4fa10$@net> Hi Bob, I spend a good percentage of my time supplying feature dailies, and I agree that it would great for tracking the material. We would need the editors to get on board...then daVinci and the TLC, Avid, FCP, Evertz, Aaton, Sony, Panasonic ...yikes the list gets long quick. Jim Jim Mann Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist [ POSTWORKS ] NEW YORK 100 Avenue of Americas, 10th Floor New York, NY 10013 T 212 894 4000 F 212 941 0439 http://www.postworks.com http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/User:Jim_Mann Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. From somearsehole at hotmail.com Wed Nov 12 15:46:51 2008 From: somearsehole at hotmail.com (Matt W-J) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:46:51 +0000 Subject: [Tig] FW: rating: quantum of solace In-Reply-To: <029B9D82-4C0D-44F2-9270-D17A0380CBE9@colorist.org> References: <029B9D82-4C0D-44F2-9270-D17A0380CBE9@colorist.org> Message-ID: From: somearsehole at hotmail.comTo: rob at colorist.orgSubject: RE: [Tig] rating: quantum of solaceDate: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:29:06 +0000 Or maybe ... 'A question of solace' yeah its the first pretentious Bond film. Bond needs humour otherwise we get a perfume ad with explosions. Surely Bond should ask 'is that the number 27?' before jumping on top of a bus.i think this film is a good example of how not to do action sequences. big things and small things happen together - missed audience reactions are the only thing faster than the cuts - in the middle of each action sequence i found myself deep in thought about something else entirely. but i've seen FAR WORSE. Die Another Day was on TV here the other night, just to remind us all.... matt > From: rob at colorist.org> To: tig at colorist.org> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:57:47 +0200> Subject: [Tig] rating: quantum of solace> > 2021 subscribers as of November 2008> Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG> www.flandersscientific.com> http://reels.colorist.org> ====> > > watching: if you like action...> > grading: very good.> > script: very poor, bordering on horrible. story almost unfathomable. > impossible to> follow, prove me wrong.> > story: horrible, see above.> cinematography: excellent> editing: poor. cuts inexplicable.> action: excellent> acting: fair (Craig: excellent, action scenes in air; excellent; > Ukrainian actress Olga:> excellent.> casting: good> > dialog high point:= "take a deep breath, make if count"> > --> Rob Lingelbach> rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html> > > > > > _______________________________________________> http://reels.colorist.org> http://www.colorist.org/wiki3Win £1000 John Lewis shopping sprees with BigSnapSearch.com Search now _________________________________________________________________ Win £1000 John Lewis shopping sprees with BigSnapSearch.com http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/117442309/direct/01/ From rob at colorist.org Wed Nov 12 16:05:44 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 18:05:44 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Modern time code In-Reply-To: <000e01c944db$42f1a8b0$c8d4fa10$@net> References: <88A6141792425345941F4D2E9DF4B8B601650165@mailserver.interfacevideo.com> <693802276.801331226435593391.JavaMail.root@sz0138a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <000e01c944db$42f1a8b0$c8d4fa10$@net> Message-ID: On Nov 12, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Jim Mann wrote: > I spend a good percentage of my time supplying feature dailies, and > I agree that it would great for tracking the material. We would need > the editors to get on board...then daVinci and the TLC, Avid, FCP, > Evertz, Aaton, Sony, Panasonic ...yikes the list gets long quick. did user bits never fulfill their promise? -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From jeff.booth at ntlworld.com Wed Nov 12 19:15:31 2008 From: jeff.booth at ntlworld.com (Jeff Booth) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 19:15:31 -0000 Subject: [Tig] Modern time code In-Reply-To: <693802276.801331226435593391.JavaMail.root@sz0138a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <88A6141792425345941F4D2E9DF4B8B601650165@mailserver.interfacevideo.com> <693802276.801331226435593391.JavaMail.root@sz0138a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <56EF1FD584554B5C8B22A248B984FB10@desktop> Hi, I read somewhere that Gavin Schultz was on an SMPTE working group looking at this. Maybe some of the Ascent guys can elucidate? Jeff -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of rlovejoy at comcast.net Sent: 11 November 2008 20:33 To: tig at colorist.org Subject: [Tig] Modern time code 2021 subscribers as of November 2008 Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG www.flandersscientific.com http://reels.colorist.org ==== Now that we have entered the twenty first century, are there any plans afoot to bring time code along with us? I think it would be great if users could select 24 hour code or flip a switch and have 100 hour code. All those dailies that keep going around the clock and leading to headaches figuring out which 4 hour reel has what scenes could go by the boards. I'd say keep the legacy code for those who want time of day, but for big jobs like feature films 100 hour code could be pretty useful. I know it involves a bit of retooling, but it seems like a good idea to me. Bob Lovejoy Shooters Post & Transfer Philadelphia, PA _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From rlovejoy at comcast.net Wed Nov 12 20:59:11 2008 From: rlovejoy at comcast.net (rlovejoy at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:59:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tig] Modern time code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1560907265.180251226523551203.JavaMail.root@sz0138a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Rob writes: >did user bits never fulfill their promise? User bits! I thought that was a breakfast cereal... But seriously, User Bits (TM General Foods) don't show up in the EDL or pull lists. You can make a case for using them, but it only helps a little. There aren't enough hours in the day - er, time code as it is. Bob Lovejoy Shooters Post Philadelphia From rob at colorist.org Wed Nov 12 21:06:51 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:06:51 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Modern time code In-Reply-To: <1560907265.180251226523551203.JavaMail.root@sz0138a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <1560907265.180251226523551203.JavaMail.root@sz0138a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: On Nov 12, 2008, at 10:59 PM, rlovejoy at comcast.net wrote: > But seriously, User Bits (TM General Foods) don't show up in the EDL > or pull lists. You can make a case for using them, but it only > helps a little. There aren't enough hours in the day - er, time > code as it is. but they could show up in EDLs theoretically, and would provide reel id info, and I had thought they were invented for this kind of scenario, but I guess they just get thrown away. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rmayer at level3post.com Wed Nov 12 21:18:04 2008 From: rmayer at level3post.com (Roger Mayer) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:18:04 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Modern time code In-Reply-To: <693802276.801331226435593391.JavaMail.root@sz0138a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <88A6141792425345941F4D2E9DF4B8B601650165@mailserver.interfacevideo.com> <693802276.801331226435593391.JavaMail.root@sz0138a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <9E97AF7B2357A8499AE9561C4383B61102C1E9@alameda2901ex02.corp.ad> As this would entail rewriting every piece of software ever written that deals with SMPTE/EBU time code, it might make more sense to keep the 24 hour count and us three bits in the user bits to signify a 24, 48 or 72 hour offset. That way existing readers, synchronizers, character generators etc. would still function. This would provide a 96 hour range. Roger H. Mayer Level 3 Post, Burbank, CA 818-840-7289 From terry at finishedit.com Wed Nov 12 21:39:48 2008 From: terry at finishedit.com (Terry Lockhart) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:39:48 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Timecode extensions (Vol 105, Issue 2) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <36223133-C497-4547-9958-F5B1D5DC7D38@finishedit.com> And then there's the feeling (by certain discreetly noted software providers) that we need 60-frame code for 720p stuff, and by extension all the weird under and over crank speeds the new do- everything cameras can attempt. Trying to force these rates onto 30- frame code by using flags is awkward at best, and not well understood by everyone's system. Can't we just call a frame a frame? -- Terry Lockhart Chief Engineer/IT manager Finish Editorial 162 Columbus Ave. Boston, Ma 02116-5222 From jpo at prestodigital.ca Wed Nov 12 22:19:22 2008 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:19:22 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Timecode extensions (Vol 105, Issue 2) In-Reply-To: <36223133-C497-4547-9958-F5B1D5DC7D38@finishedit.com> References: <36223133-C497-4547-9958-F5B1D5DC7D38@finishedit.com> Message-ID: <7C43EE42-ABCD-43E5-BFEE-D20600BA8510@prestodigital.ca> Not if we want to run them at every rate under the sun, interlace, progressive and in-between with various cadences and so on and so forth. And then bugger them up even more with speed remaps every other cut (at least) in every project. On 12-Nov-08, at 2:39 PM, Terry Lockhart wrote: > Can't we just call a frame a frame? Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From rjackson at cinesys.com Wed Nov 12 23:13:02 2008 From: rjackson at cinesys.com (Richard Jackson) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:13:02 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Timecode extensions In-Reply-To: <7C43EE42-ABCD-43E5-BFEE-D20600BA8510@prestodigital.ca> References: <36223133-C497-4547-9958-F5B1D5DC7D38@finishedit.com> <7C43EE42-ABCD-43E5-BFEE-D20600BA8510@prestodigital.ca> Message-ID: FYI: SMPTE/EBU have a joint task force looking at future changes in both timing and synchronization. http://www.smpte.org/standards/tf_home/ The RFT ("Request For Technology") has been circulated: if the committee doesn't know about your timecode concerns and problems then they probably won't be addressed in whatever solution(s) the committee comes up with! This is the group where the standards and specs come from, so sign up, participate, & let 'em know! - Richard Jackson CineSys Design From bob at bluescreen.com Wed Nov 12 23:17:16 2008 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:17:16 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Modern time code In-Reply-To: <9E97AF7B2357A8499AE9561C4383B61102C1E9@alameda2901ex02.corp.ad> References: <88A6141792425345941F4D2E9DF4B8B601650165@mailserver.interfacevideo.com> <693802276.801331226435593391.JavaMail.root@sz0138a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <9E97AF7B2357A8499AE9561C4383B61102C1E9@alameda2901ex02.corp.ad> Message-ID: <2domh4t3aut1nff8j4jkvv16gtcnf9qp5u@4ax.com> >As this would entail rewriting every piece of software ever written that >deals with SMPTE/EBU time code, it might make more sense to keep the 24 >hour count and us three bits in the user bits to signify a 24, 48 or 72 >hour offset. That way existing readers, synchronizers, character >generators etc. would still function. > >This would provide a 96 hour range. Interesting idea, and workable right now. If there is a new tc spec there will have to be dual standards for everything dealing with tc for at least 10 years, as a change to the specs would obsolete not only every piece of software, but every piece of hardware out there as well. Yes, wouldn't it be fun to have it go to 1000 hours, but the amount of collateral pain would be tremendous. I don't edit, so take this for what it's worth: I really don't see what the big deal is being restricted to 24 hours. Between the code and the reel numbers, there are enough variables to never have to repeat, no matter how long the project. I would be happy if they just took the baby step of eliminating drop frame from the spec and make it all non-drop regardless of frame rate. And yes, I know, the networks would actually have to buy wall clocks and stop watches. Such is the cost of progress. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From mfw at musictrax.com Thu Nov 13 06:13:47 2008 From: mfw at musictrax.com (Marc Wielage) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 22:13:47 -0800 Subject: [Tig] rating: quantum of solace In-Reply-To: <029B9D82-4C0D-44F2-9270-D17A0380CBE9@colorist.org> Message-ID: On 11/11/08 11:57 AM, "Rob Lingelbach" wrote: > watching: if you like action... >------------------------------------------------------------< VARIETY had similar opinions: http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117938800.html?categoryid=31&cs=1 BTW, I noted that at least part of this Bond film was shot on the Dalsa Origin digital camera. Anybody know how much of it was shot digitally, and how much was shot on film? IMDB seems to indicate it was shot on a bunch of different cameras and formats. Ironically, I heard this week that Dalsa is exiting the camera business and is going to concentrate only on making the 4K pick-ups. --Marc Wielage/Senior Colorist Technicolor Creative Services Hollywood, USA NOTE: The comments above are strictly mine, and may not necessarily represent those of my employers. From rob at colorist.org Thu Nov 13 07:41:22 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:41:22 +0200 Subject: [Tig] digital cameras Message-ID: <402F92BE-E609-46BB-B832-9EED239A5C9E@colorist.org> An article in today's New York Times has some interesting hints about sensor size vs. number of pixels, for still cameras, though there are some points that apply to motion-picture technology as well. A nice quote from Ansel Adams is included, which speaks to the present and future of all-too-easy image capture: “The sheer ease with which we can produce a superficial image,” Mr. Adams once wrote, “often leads to creative disaster.” (cf: Quantum of Solace criticism) article at http://tinyurl.com/6zulcs -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From bob at bluescreen.com Thu Nov 13 15:17:31 2008 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:17:31 -0800 Subject: [Tig] digital cameras In-Reply-To: <402F92BE-E609-46BB-B832-9EED239A5C9E@colorist.org> References: <402F92BE-E609-46BB-B832-9EED239A5C9E@colorist.org> Message-ID: >“The sheer ease with which we can produce a superficial image,” >Mr. Adams once wrote, “often leads to creative disaster.” Pretty much sums up the industry's race to the bottom since the advent of cheap DVCrap camcorders, followed by cheap HDVCrap camcorders. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From jpo at prestodigital.ca Thu Nov 13 16:02:34 2008 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:02:34 -0700 Subject: [Tig] digital cameras In-Reply-To: References: <402F92BE-E609-46BB-B832-9EED239A5C9E@colorist.org> Message-ID: On 13-Nov-08, at 8:17 AM, Bob Kertesz wrote: > > >> “The sheer ease with which we can produce a superficial image,” >> Mr. Adams once wrote, “often leads to creative disaster.” > > Pretty much sums up the industry's race to the bottom since the > advent of > cheap DVCrap camcorders, followed by cheap HDVCrap camcorders. > While all the time being duped into believing in the Emperor's New Clothes. I'm thinking about all the new spectacular "4K" (although a little teensy tiny bit compressed) offerings. Do the math. Its like believing you really need an 800 horsepower vehicle to commute to work, but what they're selling is the badge on the trunk. Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From BTopazio at company3.com Thu Nov 13 16:14:51 2008 From: BTopazio at company3.com (Bill Topazio) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:14:51 -0500 Subject: [Tig] digital cameras In-Reply-To: References: <402F92BE-E609-46BB-B832-9EED239A5C9E@colorist.org> Message-ID: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC63401687725@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> That's a little unfair, Bob. After all, there's some expensive crap out there too. -----Original Message----- >"The sheer ease with which we can produce a superficial image," >Mr. Adams once wrote, "often leads to creative disaster." Pretty much sums up the industry's race to the bottom since the advent of cheap DVCrap camcorders, followed by cheap HDVCrap camcorders. --Bob From bobfesta at mac.com Thu Nov 13 16:31:27 2008 From: bobfesta at mac.com (Bob Festa) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:31:27 -0800 Subject: [Tig] digital cameras In-Reply-To: References: <402F92BE-E609-46BB-B832-9EED239A5C9E@colorist.org> Message-ID: Like it or not...let's welcome in the next generation. http://red.com/epic_scarlet/ ___________________ Bob Festa New Hat 1819 Colorado Avenue Santa Monica, CA 90409 310 401-2220 bobfesta.com On Nov 13, 2008, at 7:17 AM, Bob Kertesz wrote: > 2021 subscribers as of November 2008 > Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG > www.flandersscientific.com > http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > >> “The sheer ease with which we can produce a superficial image,” >> Mr. Adams once wrote, “often leads to creative disaster.” > > Pretty much sums up the industry's race to the bottom since the > advent of > cheap DVCrap camcorders, followed by cheap HDVCrap camcorders. > > --Bob > > Bob Kertesz > BlueScreen LLC > Hollywood, California > bob at bluescreen.com > > The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. > For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at colorist.org Thu Nov 13 16:48:14 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:48:14 +0200 Subject: [Tig] digital cameras In-Reply-To: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC63401687725@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> References: <402F92BE-E609-46BB-B832-9EED239A5C9E@colorist.org> <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC63401687725@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> Message-ID: On Nov 13, 2008, at 6:14 PM, Bill Topazio wrote: > That's a little unfair, Bob. After all, there's some expensive crap > out > there too. eeeeeeaaaa 28K and who will be the first to 600K, at which point, if not sooner, we'll need new eyeballs and cerebro-optico-gigantico- simulacra. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Thu Nov 13 16:57:17 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:57:17 +0200 Subject: [Tig] mysterium monstro In-Reply-To: References: <402F92BE-E609-46BB-B832-9EED239A5C9E@colorist.org> <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC63401687725@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> Message-ID: excellent PR work by the RED people, as when you scroll through the URL presented by Bob Festa, you come .. at last.. after the Mysterium Monstro collosal imager.... The... 3D! RED. No tongue-in-cheek intended, this is fairly masterful PR. But.. like, as BT pointed out, it's a Ferrari F1 and you have to buy the gas for it. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk Thu Nov 13 17:01:48 2008 From: grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:01:48 -0000 Subject: [Tig] digital cameras In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tiny bit compressed ..... I'm sure many people remember Pete Swinson's demo of a 4k image 52:1 compressed to the size of less than a SD frame ..and back again ... Nobody could see the join between the original and the compressed split screen on what must have been the first 4k monitor .. I believe they projected it on to a big creen and still nobody could see the difference. The fact that the 4k pixel is getting close to the grain size means the eye cant see the difference and the compression can work more efficiently. Wont be long !!! Graham Collett Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Joe Owens Sent: 13 November 2008 16:03 To: Bob Kertesz Cc: TIG Group Subject: Re: [Tig] digital cameras 2021 subscribers as of November 2008 Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG www.flandersscientific.com http://reels.colorist.org ==== On 13-Nov-08, at 8:17 AM, Bob Kertesz wrote: > > >> "The sheer ease with which we can produce a superficial image," Mr. >> Adams once wrote, "often leads to creative disaster." > > Pretty much sums up the industry's race to the bottom since the > advent of > cheap DVCrap camcorders, followed by cheap HDVCrap camcorders. > While all the time being duped into believing in the Emperor's New Clothes. I'm thinking about all the new spectacular "4K" (although a little teensy tiny bit compressed) offerings. Do the math. Its like believing you really need an 800 horsepower vehicle to commute to work, but what they're selling is the badge on the trunk. Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From stretchroc at gmail.com Thu Nov 13 17:15:57 2008 From: stretchroc at gmail.com (Anders Uhl) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:15:57 -0500 Subject: [Tig] mysterium monstro In-Reply-To: References: <402F92BE-E609-46BB-B832-9EED239A5C9E@colorist.org> <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC63401687725@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> Message-ID: <81D7A169-47FC-4BB5-9073-DBEDFBB032AB@gmail.com> On Nov 13, 2008, at 11:57, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > No tongue-in-cheek intended, this is fairly masterful PR. But.. > like, > as BT pointed out, it's a Ferrari F1 and you have to buy the gas > for it. And of course it doesn't exist and "specifications are subject to drastic changes". I wish I could market myself that way! :-) I like the still camera aspect. That's exciting about the new Canon and Nikon with "HD" capability, a still camera body could be a much more useful form for certain applications. Of course, film is really nice too... Best, anders ++++++++++++++++ anders uhl director cameraman new york/philly From rob at colorist.org Thu Nov 13 17:20:27 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:20:27 +0200 Subject: [Tig] mysterium monstro In-Reply-To: <81D7A169-47FC-4BB5-9073-DBEDFBB032AB@gmail.com> References: <402F92BE-E609-46BB-B832-9EED239A5C9E@colorist.org> <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC63401687725@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> <81D7A169-47FC-4BB5-9073-DBEDFBB032AB@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Nov 13, 2008, at 7:15 PM, Anders Uhl wrote: > And of course it doesn't exist and "specifications are subject to > drastic changes". drastic, that's a drastic word. > I like the still camera aspect. That's exciting about the new Canon > and Nikon with "HD" capability, a still camera body could be a much > more useful form for certain applications. can you elucidate a bit Anders, on those new cameras, and how they might impact our work? thanks in advance, Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Thu Nov 13 17:39:12 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:39:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Tig] digital cameras In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Nov 2008, Graham Collett wrote: > .. I believe they projected it on to a big creen and still nobody could > see the difference. The fact that the 4k pixel is getting close to the > grain size means the eye cant see the difference and the compression can > work more efficiently. Wont be long !!! Images sourced from film are quite a bit different than those obtained from digital sensors. With digital sources, you get more noise rather than less as the resolution goes up, so the compression may get worse. Perhaps wavelet based compression algorithms will improve the compression ratio. >From my observations of human behavior, the human eye sees only what it is used to seeing. If you show a person used to seeing blurry images, a crystal clear image, they still don't obtain the full benefit. The human brain works like a sort of sharpening filter which automatically adds illusory details so that image the brain sees looks better. Seeing images better takes time and training. After someone has become accustomed to crystal clear images, then they will notice right away if an image is less clear. Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From spirit4k at gmail.com Thu Nov 13 19:03:38 2008 From: spirit4k at gmail.com (Craig Nichols) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:03:38 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Modern time code In-Reply-To: <693802276.801331226435593391.JavaMail.root@sz0138a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <88A6141792425345941F4D2E9DF4B8B601650165@mailserver.interfacevideo.com> <693802276.801331226435593391.JavaMail.root@sz0138a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <5c9ca6590811131103t262b7af8l59885a0954404db6@mail.gmail.com> Or just really screw things up and make decimal time per French Revolutionary Decimal Time http://www.decimaltime.hynes.net/times.htmlClocks and watches were built with the hours were numbered 1-10, with 10 for midnight and 5 for noon. also http://www.decimaltime.hynes.net/proposals.html Seriously though, the only workable solution I have seen is what Roger Mayer has suggested. Craig Nichols Sr. Technical Support Engineer Digital Film Support On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 12:33 PM, wrote: > 2021 subscribers as of November 2008 > Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG > www.flandersscientific.com > http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > Now that we have entered the twenty first century, are there any plans > afoot to bring time code along with us? I think it would be great if users > could select 24 hour code or flip a switch and have 100 hour code. All those > dailies that keep going around the clock and leading to headaches figuring > out which 4 hour reel has what scenes could go by the boards. I'd say keep > the legacy code for those who want time of day, but for big jobs like > feature films 100 hour code could be pretty useful. > I know it involves a bit of retooling, but it seems like a good idea to me. > > Bob Lovejoy > Shooters Post & Transfer > Philadelphia, PA > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > From bob at bluescreen.com Thu Nov 13 19:56:42 2008 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:56:42 -0800 Subject: [Tig] mysterium monstro In-Reply-To: References: <402F92BE-E609-46BB-B832-9EED239A5C9E@colorist.org> <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC63401687725@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> Message-ID: >excellent PR work by the RED people, as when you scroll through the >URL presented by Bob Festa, you come .. at last.. after the >Mysterium Monstro collosal imager.... The... 3D! RED. I don't see anything in the specs that would indicate the RED body genlocks, which would make 3D work interesting, to say the least. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From jpo at prestodigital.ca Thu Nov 13 20:44:17 2008 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:44:17 -0700 Subject: [Tig] mysterium monstro In-Reply-To: References: <402F92BE-E609-46BB-B832-9EED239A5C9E@colorist.org> <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC63401687725@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> Message-ID: >> The... 3D! RED. > > I don't see anything in the specs that would indicate the RED body > genlocks, > which would make 3D work interesting, to say the least. > Apparently all you need to do is strap two cameras together... ;-P Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From jeffkreines at mindspring.com Thu Nov 13 21:32:01 2008 From: jeffkreines at mindspring.com (Jeff Kreines) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:32:01 -0600 Subject: [Tig] mysterium monstro In-Reply-To: References: <402F92BE-E609-46BB-B832-9EED239A5C9E@colorist.org> <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC63401687725@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> Message-ID: <18A20EF8-00BE-4E96-ADE7-C3503BA3FB35@mindspring.com> It's not video. Genlock is irrelevant. All you need to do is trigger them simultaneously -- very simple. On Nov 13, 2008, at 1:56 PM, Bob Kertesz wrote: > I don't see anything in the specs that would indicate the RED body > genlocks, > which would make 3D work interesting, to say the least. From bob at bluescreen.com Fri Nov 14 02:39:19 2008 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:39:19 -0800 Subject: [Tig] mysterium monstro In-Reply-To: <18A20EF8-00BE-4E96-ADE7-C3503BA3FB35@mindspring.com> References: <402F92BE-E609-46BB-B832-9EED239A5C9E@colorist.org> <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC63401687725@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> <18A20EF8-00BE-4E96-ADE7-C3503BA3FB35@mindspring.com> Message-ID: I don't agree. I've done about 30 or 40 days of 3D production, and genlock is highly relevant in certain situations. Neither the Hanna Montana movie, nor U23D, nor the NBA playoff games would have been possible to shoot 3D in the manner in which they were shot without genlocking cameras. While I understand the current post production philosophy is to get production to lock off a wide shot with as much resolution as possible and let post handle everything, there are many people who don't like to work that way, and situations which won't accommodate working that way. If you need to do a good job of setting convergence and other 3D parameters while you're shooting, the images need to be fed through whatever proprietary box the facilities company uses to monitor that, and none of the currently available black boxes I know of from Pace or 3ality or anyone else can do that if the video sources are free running. Sure, you can get a couple of standalone frame syncs and a sync generator and fix that, but why should you have to? The much more expensive Arri D21 is no different, BTW, and that flat sided body would be great for side-by-side 3D work. I just don't understand why something as basic as genlock was omitted on either device when there didn't seem to be a problem including it on the $8K Sony EX3. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com >It's not video. Genlock is irrelevant. > >All you need to do is trigger them simultaneously -- very simple. >On Nov 13, 2008, at 1:56 PM, Bob Kertesz wrote: > >> I don't see anything in the specs that would indicate the RED body genlocks, >> which would make 3D work interesting, to say the least. From jeff.olm at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 02:58:58 2008 From: jeff.olm at gmail.com (Jeff Olm) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:58:58 -0800 Subject: [Tig] mysterium monstro In-Reply-To: <18A20EF8-00BE-4E96-ADE7-C3503BA3FB35@mindspring.com> References: <402F92BE-E609-46BB-B832-9EED239A5C9E@colorist.org> <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC63401687725@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> <18A20EF8-00BE-4E96-ADE7-C3503BA3FB35@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <43298eae0811131858i7389628dgb239f6a3b2660783@mail.gmail.com> Jeff K. said It's not video. Genlock is irrelevant. All you need to do is trigger them simultaneously -- very simple. Jeff O. replied On a stereo RED gig not with the RED rig. I worked on a show well over 6 months ago we had to post sync left and right eye on Scratch. I was just on the receiving post end not on production side. The shutters should to be in sync. I really like the Pace rigs and 3ality rigs for engineering and flexibility. Becasue they are designed for live events. Anything that has been thru a Jim Cameron show I consider battle tested. best, Jeff Olm Stereo Colorist LA, CA From ariel82 at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 16:21:16 2008 From: ariel82 at gmail.com (Ariel Altman) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:21:16 -0500 Subject: [Tig] mysterium monstro In-Reply-To: References: <402F92BE-E609-46BB-B832-9EED239A5C9E@colorist.org> <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC63401687725@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> <18A20EF8-00BE-4E96-ADE7-C3503BA3FB35@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <16d58eea0811140821n32731ac3we9b680cc4eb46abc@mail.gmail.com> After several years of following this email list I am finally going to post something! I don't know that the new line of red cameras will not have genlock. The RedOne does so I can only assume that the IO module on the new systems may also have this option. Ariel Altman VFX Artist headlightnyc.com From lorne.miess at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 17:39:18 2008 From: lorne.miess at gmail.com (Miess Lorne) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 09:39:18 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Looking for Jim DeFillipi Message-ID: <69E13D26-5A36-4167-898D-BB64877B058D@gmail.com> Hi, I'm looking for an e-mail address for Jim DeFillipi at Fox Network's R&D laboratory. Can anyone help thanks Lorne Lorne Miess Colourist / Instructor Vancouver, British Columbia lorne.miess at gmail.com From kannan at prasadvideo.com Sat Nov 15 11:45:32 2008 From: kannan at prasadvideo.com (kannan) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 17:15:32 +0530 Subject: [Tig] LCD monitor Calibration Message-ID: <000a01c94717$aadbc800$4b0aa8c0@techsupport> Hi, Can anybody give me the procedure to calibrate the EIZO LCD monitor for Lustre 2009. Somehow I managed to attain the white level but I could not able to attain the black level. Thanks in advance, Anandakannan P. From carl at stopp.se Mon Nov 17 22:47:17 2008 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 23:47:17 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Re 100hrs TC Message-ID: Why don't just ad a couple digits before the hour... After reaching 24hrs you get an other 'day' and after that comes months. Could be a problem though with 30/31 day per month. And leap year will be a headake. Carl Skaf -sent from mobile device ___________________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 22 From rob at colorist.org Tue Nov 18 15:00:43 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:00:43 +0200 Subject: [Tig] a flight into yesterday (OT) Message-ID: <2791E85D-CD56-4E27-BAD7-79BA19BD96C8@colorist.org> Anyone interested in watching a 16mm film done in 1961 by Encyclopedia Britannica called _An Airplane Trip by Jet_ can see it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfbvFusR43k Bob, Sue, and Skippy fly from Idylwild in NY to San Francisco, on a DC8. 16mm framing problems toward the end. Wild, racy dialog and narration make this an unforgettable journey. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From jpo at prestodigital.ca Tue Nov 18 15:40:19 2008 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 08:40:19 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Re 100hrs TC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > Why don't just ad a couple digits before the hour... After reaching > 24hrs you get an other 'day' and after that comes months. > Could be a problem though with 30/31 day per month. And leap year > will be a headake. > Oh, that'd be easy to fix.... "Drop Day" timecode. Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From John at VictoryStudios.com Tue Nov 18 19:09:02 2008 From: John at VictoryStudios.com (John Davidson) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:09:02 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Sons of Anarchy Message-ID: Lately I have been watching "Sons of Anarchy" and have been noticing some disturbing motion artifacts. I believe the show is shot with the Genisis camera and I assume at 23:98. But everytime there is a pan it has some really bad stepping. It is clearly not a 3:2 issue. I see 23:98 all the time in my daVinci room and the only time I see these kinds of motion problems is usually an issue from Final Cut. So I call back up to the editors and they say it was usually the wrong codec or something like that, and redo it. But I understand the show is cut on a "DS". Anyway has anyone else noticed what I am talking about and is this a new level of acceptance that we have to deal with. Thank You, John Davidson john at victorystudios.com From BTopazio at company3.com Tue Nov 18 19:34:14 2008 From: BTopazio at company3.com (Bill Topazio) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 14:34:14 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Re 100hrs TC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC6340184BBE6@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> You know I used to work at NBC and probably should know this, but what to the networks do at the transitions between daylight savings and standard time? -bt -----Original Message----- ==== > > Why don't just ad a couple digits before the hour... After reaching > 24hrs you get an other 'day' and after that comes months. > Could be a problem though with 30/31 day per month. And leap year > will be a headake. > Oh, that'd be easy to fix.... "Drop Day" timecode. Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From rob at colorist.org Tue Nov 18 20:26:43 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:26:43 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Re 100hrs TC In-Reply-To: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC6340184BBE6@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> References: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC6340184BBE6@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> Message-ID: On Nov 18, 2008, at 9:34 PM, Bill Topazio wrote: > You know I used to work at NBC and probably should know this, but what > to the networks do at the transitions between daylight savings and > standard time? -bt If you fly from Tonga to Samoa, flight duration roughly two hours, you'll arrive the day before you left, a net gain of 22 hours. If there were a station transmitting from Tonga to Samoa, or vice versa, one can imagine the confusion. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From carl at stopp.se Tue Nov 18 22:36:18 2008 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 23:36:18 +0100 Subject: [Tig] CRT vs LCD vs DLP-Proj Message-ID: I was woundering... I've been looking for a "replacement" for our BVM-32. So far the best choice seems to be Barco's 23". Or maybe Sony's 23". But for a grade suite to "downgrade" to a 23" from 32" is giving the clients a smaller moitor to look at while paying good money to grade. So what are you guys using out there in the big world? Are people still using BVM's? Is the 32" the most used size? if you have moved on to LCD-grading... what are you using? How are the Projectors compared to CRT's? For all you blockbuster colorist colorist out there... when you grade a movie, are you doing it on the big screen the whole session or do you use a CRT and have the Projector on "in the background" for the clients? I do think that grading on a CRT and delivering for broadcast is coming to an end fairly soon. I mean, we are looking and judging on a technology that is very far away from what (at least soon) viewers and especialy clients are watching it on at home. And I'm not sure, but it seems like Consumer Flatpanel displays are "lifted in gamma" even by EBU spec. (Seen if you compare Barco's LCD to a Sony BVM), and is that is true, then isn't it completly wrong to be grading on a CRT? And all of us have probably seen in the electronic stores how bad a LCD can look regarding noisy blacks. Its even seen on Sony's Grade 3ish LMD monitors. If you did a comparision between a BVM and a LMD and had the LMD (slightly wrong calibrated), and looking on normaly grainy 16mm footage I think you would see a lot more stuff going on in the blacks that doen't excist on the BVM. If these kind of "errors" are seen on consumer TV's and are impossible to see on our high-end CRT's... is it not time to move over? Sure a propper Grade1 LCD wount bee as noisy as the LMD, but when I saw Barco's it had something in the blacks, not at all as the above, almost as clean as the BVM, but not quite there. If Grade1 LCD's only escist in a max size of 23"... what do you guys think of the idea to have a LCD close the Colorist and a "small" 3-chip DLP Projector (like Christie HD-series) on the wall for the clients. I mean, to sit and grade on a 23" when a lot of viewers are getting Flat Panels up 50-60", isn't realy the way to do it. Whe whole look impact differs so much when you see it on a small screen compared to a medium size. Speaking of monitors in a Grade suite... whats the thoughts on having more then one monitor in the suite? You think it's good to see how it looks on a "normal TV"? Or do you hate the idea of having a second monitor because of the endless discussion with clients about monitors not matching? Feel free not to answer any of these Questions, but rather ventilate you thoughts on the topic among us all. /carl Carl Skaff _____________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 22 From jpo at prestodigital.ca Tue Nov 18 22:55:45 2008 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:55:45 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Re 100hrs TC In-Reply-To: References: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC6340184BBE6@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> Message-ID: > > If you fly from Tonga to Samoa, flight duration roughly two hours, > you'll > arrive the day before you left, a net gain of 22 hours. There is a legend that on some US Navy qualification exams there was a math problem assigned just like this, that required the correct date as part of the solution. The ones who got it right were put into "Navigation" training. Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From jpo at prestodigital.ca Tue Nov 18 23:02:51 2008 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:02:51 -0700 Subject: [Tig] When did we start tape-to-tape? In-Reply-To: References: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC6340184BBE6@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> Message-ID: Recent inquiry from a colleague. When did tape-to-tape come into common usage. Was it daVinci about 1983-4? Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From adriano.mestroni at interactivegroup.it Wed Nov 19 10:05:16 2008 From: adriano.mestroni at interactivegroup.it (Mestroni, Adriano) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:05:16 +0100 Subject: [Tig] R: When did we start tape-to-tape? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi. I personally started in 1989 with an analog daVinci Classic, from Ampex 1" (can you image? From composit converted in RGB) or D1. daVinci Classic started in 1984. Wiz started in 1980 but only for telecine Bosh FDL60 e RCA TK28. -----Messaggio originale----- Da: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] Per conto di Joe Owens Inviato: mercoledì 19 novembre 2008 0.03 A: tig at colorist.org Group Oggetto: [Tig] When did we start tape-to-tape? 2021 subscribers as of November 2008 Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG www.flandersscientific.com http://reels.colorist.org ==== Recent inquiry from a colleague. When did tape-to-tape come into common usage. Was it daVinci about 1983-4? Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From somearsehole at hotmail.com Wed Nov 19 12:06:52 2008 From: somearsehole at hotmail.com (Matt W-J) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:06:52 +0000 Subject: [Tig] CRT vs LCD vs DLP-Proj In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: humble opinion #1for broadcast work:an old PAL monitor + a HD Projector have the PAL monitor for colour accuracy, have the projector for resolution detail and client candy. match the two as best you can in the suite. if you can get yellows / greens to seperate at the same point then i'd say you'd done very well and you can go home for the day. (2 screens is enough in a grading suite. Frankly things can get confusing enough with just the one...) if you can, cough up for a proper projector (as although there are some stunning consumer level projectors, they have trouble with colour reproduction in the blacks, and never seem to have enough brightness to accurately portray the high end). LCD monitors are a very good way to raise blood pressure and shorten your life expectancy. I know this as I have one. I don't want it. Nor do you. > From: carl at stopp.se> To: tig at colorist.org> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 23:36:18 +0100> Subject: [Tig] CRT vs LCD vs DLP-Proj> > 2021 subscribers as of November 2008> Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG> www.flandersscientific.com> http://reels.colorist.org> ====> > > I was woundering...> > I've been looking for a "replacement" for our BVM-32.> So far the best choice seems to be Barco's 23". Or maybe Sony's 23".> > But for a grade suite to "downgrade" to a 23" from 32" is giving the clients a smaller moitor to look at while paying good money to grade.> > So what are you guys using out there in the big world?> Are people still using BVM's?> Is the 32" the most used size?> if you have moved on to LCD-grading... what are you using?> How are the Projectors compared to CRT's?> > For all you blockbuster colorist colorist out there... when you grade a movie, are you doing it on the big screen the> whole session or do you use a CRT and have the Projector on "in the background" for the clients?> > > I do think that grading on a CRT and delivering for broadcast is coming to an end fairly soon.> I mean, we are looking and judging on a technology that is very far away from what (at least soon) viewers and especialy clients are watching it on at home.> And I'm not sure, but it seems like Consumer Flatpanel displays are "lifted in gamma" even by EBU spec. (Seen if you compare Barco's LCD to a Sony BVM),> and is that is true, then isn't it completly wrong to be grading on a CRT?> > And all of us have probably seen in the electronic stores how bad a LCD can look regarding noisy blacks. Its even seen on Sony's Grade 3ish LMD monitors.> If you did a comparision between a BVM and a LMD and had the LMD (slightly wrong calibrated), and looking on normaly grainy 16mm footage> I think you would see a lot more stuff going on in the blacks that doen't excist on the BVM.> If these kind of "errors" are seen on consumer TV's and are impossible to see on our high-end CRT's... is it not time to move over? Sure a propper Grade1 LCD wount bee as noisy as the LMD,> but when I saw Barco's it had something in the blacks, not at all as the above, almost as clean as the BVM, but not quite there.> > If Grade1 LCD's only escist in a max size of 23"... what do you guys think of the idea to have a LCD close the Colorist and a "small" 3-chip DLP Projector (like Christie HD-series) on the wall for the clients.> I mean, to sit and grade on a 23" when a lot of viewers are getting Flat Panels up 50-60", isn't realy the way to do it. Whe whole look impact differs so much when you see it on a small screen compared to a medium size.> > Speaking of monitors in a Grade suite... whats the thoughts on having more then one monitor in the suite?> You think it's good to see how it looks on a "normal TV"? Or do you hate the idea of having a second monitor because of the endless discussion with clients about monitors not matching?> > Feel free not to answer any of these Questions, but rather ventilate you thoughts on the topic among us all.> > /carl> > > > > > > Carl Skaff> _____________________> Head of Telecine> Stockholm Postproduction> www.stopp.se> phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00> fax: +46 8 32 77 22> > _______________________________________________> http://reels.colorist.org> http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 _________________________________________________________________ See the most popular videos on the web http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/115454061/direct/01/ From BTopazio at company3.com Wed Nov 19 14:12:13 2008 From: BTopazio at company3.com (Bill Topazio) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:12:13 -0500 Subject: [Tig] R: When did we start tape-to-tape? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC6340184BD08@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> '89 is about right for me too. Built a suite around an old Classic and a CMX for the TV series "Taittingers" (horrible show, didn't last the season...) to do combo on-line and TTCC. Did the on-line on the CMX (from VPR-2s). Built a Z8 interface so you could "print" a final EDL from the CMX into the daVinci serial port and then slide the CMX keyboard over and slide in the TTCC panels and move on to the TTCC phase. The Z8 box handled both serial ends, buffer and reformat of the text data into something the davinci would eat. I recall as we were building this up, we dropped the daVinci down a flight of stairs. Busted the hard drive but everything else worked once the cards were reseated. The frame mostly straightened itself out when re-rackmounted. Tough bird. -----Original Message----- ==== Hi. I personally started in 1989 with an analog daVinci Classic, from Ampex 1" (can you image? From composit converted in RGB) or D1. daVinci Classic started in 1984. Wiz started in 1980 but only for telecine Bosh FDL60 e RCA TK28. -----Messaggio originale----- Recent inquiry from a colleague. When did tape-to-tape come into common usage. Was it daVinci about 1983-4? Joe Owens From phartel at colum.edu Wed Nov 19 15:29:56 2008 From: phartel at colum.edu (Hartel, Peter) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:29:56 -0600 Subject: [Tig] CRT vs LCD vs DLP-Proj In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Sounds like good, sound advice from practical experience, the best kind, after all. Sincerely, Peter Hartel From bobc at davsys.com Wed Nov 19 16:08:47 2008 From: bobc at davsys.com (Bob Caniglia) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:08:47 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Re 100hrs TC In-Reply-To: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC6340184BBE6@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> References: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC6340184BBE6@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> Message-ID: <090AABB6E4E8BD4D9E38C93EF065450501A3160D@exg01.davsys.com> I worked overnight master control back in the 80's, at 2 am, you jump an hour in the spring and you get to work an hour less....in the fall you get screwed and work an extra hour. From gerruby2 at hotmail.com Wed Nov 19 16:38:37 2008 From: gerruby2 at hotmail.com (Gerlof Kamerling) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:38:37 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Dreamcolor Message-ID: Hi All, Has anybody got any experience with the HP Dreamcolor display ( as a grading monitor). Any comments are welcome also offlist. Thanks in advance, Gerlof Kamerling Bothalaan 2 1217 JP, Hilversum Tel: +31(0)35 6727 686 Fax: +31(0)35 6727 696 Mob: +31(0)6 10493475 www.avi-drome.nl From rob at colorist.org Wed Nov 19 17:01:07 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:01:07 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Re 100hrs TC In-Reply-To: <090AABB6E4E8BD4D9E38C93EF065450501A3160D@exg01.davsys.com> References: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC6340184BBE6@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> <090AABB6E4E8BD4D9E38C93EF065450501A3160D@exg01.davsys.com> Message-ID: On Nov 19, 2008, at 6:08 PM, Bob Caniglia wrote: > I worked overnight master control back in the 80's, > at 2 am, you jump an hour in the spring and you get > to work an hour less....in the fall you get screwed > and work an extra hour. I hadn't ever thought of it that way, with respect to working that shift on those days. What gets quite confusing is that different countries change to spring and summer time on different days, and then throw in the fact that the Southern Hemisphere is going the other direction with their clocks, and the difference between time in say, Sao Paulo and L.A., is either 4, 5, or 6 hours, and tracking it is a lifelong occupation. I always like the 25 hour day you get when it's fall (though working the day shift) and wonder why (i guess it's obvious) we don't just change the days to have 25 hours, makes things easier to accomplish somehow. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Wed Nov 19 17:02:37 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:02:37 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Dreamcolor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7F59C481-E5F3-4F2B-817C-1C0591FFF436@colorist.org> On Nov 19, 2008, at 6:38 PM, Gerlof Kamerling wrote: > Has anybody got any experience with the HP Dreamcolor display ( as a > grading > monitor). > Any comments are welcome also offlist. this is a question whose answers would be extremely interesting to many including me. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Wed Nov 19 17:05:28 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:05:28 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Re 100hrs TC In-Reply-To: References: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC6340184BBE6@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> <090AABB6E4E8BD4D9E38C93EF065450501A3160D@exg01.davsys.com> Message-ID: On Nov 19, 2008, at 7:01 PM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > > What gets quite confusing is that different countries change to > spring and summer time on different days, to take this ad absurdium: the US state of Arizona does not observe Daylight Savings (summer) Time. But the Indian Reservations in Arizona do. Then add in the days on which the time changes with respect to countries, Northern vs. Southern Hemispheres, and that some states in some countries near the equator have no need to observe summer time (the seasons vary so slightly) and it's the subject for a Doctoral Thesis. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From ramona at spectsoft.com Wed Nov 19 17:06:46 2008 From: ramona at spectsoft.com (Ramona Howard) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:06:46 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Dreamcolor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200811190906.46308.ramona@spectsoft.com> Gerlof, > Has anybody got any experience with the HP Dreamcolor display ( as a grading monitor). My only comments are that the only inputs for the monitor are DVI (which is only 8bit) and HDMI (which this sports above HDMI 1.3 and can do above 8bit) BUT There are not any SDI to HDMI converters yet that support the same so you will have no way to get above 8bit to the monitor. (All of the current converters support below the HDMI 1.3 spec) I would guess to say you would want to grade in more than 8bit, no? My suggestion would be to push the converter companies to make the switch so new monitors like these can be used and then we can really begin to make apple to apple comparisons to CRTs. Until then it is more like an apple to a pear :) Cheers, Ramona -- Ramona Howard CEO/Founder SpectSoft, Inc. 375 Johnson Ave Oakdale, CA 95361 Phone: 209.847.7812 extension 104 Fax: 209.847.7859 http://www.spectsoft.com From rob at colorist.org Wed Nov 19 17:17:25 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:17:25 +0200 Subject: [Tig] 2 or more monitors in the suite In-Reply-To: <200811190906.46308.ramona@spectsoft.com> References: <200811190906.46308.ramona@spectsoft.com> Message-ID: <530FCB7A-C740-4B4E-B876-AAA41C06D164@colorist.org> with regard to the recent questions posed about having more than one color monitor in the suite: in most cases, if you're talking about CRTs, and they're Sony grade 1s (no affiliation with Sony here) then it's not terribly difficult to get them to match, unless they're of different age or have problems (which is often the case). colorspace, however, must sometimes be explained to the client, if using an LCD or Plasma display while the main grading monitor is a CRT. In the past, these little discussions were time-wasting and not of much interest to the client (depending on the knowledge of the client) and one had to insert various caveats and disclaimers into the dialog. I leave the questions about projectors to those with more knowledge than I, though I've seen projectors which, when a LUT is applied, look quite good and are the preferred reference in grading for colorist and client. But all this depends on your workflow (film out, video out, or iPod out). It all makes a colorist's life more interesting. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Wed Nov 19 17:33:21 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:33:21 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Tig] Dreamcolor In-Reply-To: <200811190906.46308.ramona@spectsoft.com> References: <200811190906.46308.ramona@spectsoft.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Nov 2008, Ramona Howard wrote: > My only comments are that the only inputs for the monitor are DVI > (which is only 8bit) and HDMI (which this sports above HDMI 1.3 and > can do above 8bit) BUT There are not any SDI to HDMI converters yet > that support the same so you will have no way to get above 8bit to > the monitor. (All of the current converters support below the HDMI > 1.3 spec) > > I would guess to say you would want to grade in more than 8bit, no? LCD panels in general are only 8 bit. While many will use a gamma table with more than 8 bits, the actual panel driver devices bonded to the back of the LCD panel are only 8 bits (or less). Even if you pump in 10 bits of resolution you are unlikely to get anything close to 10 bits out. The market for deep resolution professional display devices is exceedingly small compared to the consumer market. As a result, this tail does not wag the dog very much. Perhaps FED will be different since its consumer market will be small and so it will need to focus on the professional market. Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From gerruby2 at hotmail.com Wed Nov 19 17:39:10 2008 From: gerruby2 at hotmail.com (Gerlof Kamerling) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:39:10 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Dreamcolor Message-ID: Hello, Doesn¹t cinetal now make a box (davio) that does exactly that. So you can grade in 10bit. Regards, Gerlof P.S. Not getting paid etc...... From jslomka at imageworks.com Wed Nov 19 18:49:33 2008 From: jslomka at imageworks.com (Joseph Slomka) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:49:33 -0800 Subject: [Tig] CRT vs LCD vs DLP-Proj In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carl, I can't really give you some final answers to your questions but I can give you a quick idea of what we are doing and why. Right now for our DI and QC suites we are still using Sony BVM crts. For one we are lucky enough to have a sufficient number of displays to meet our needs. The main reason that we are using them is that they produce the images that clients expect to see for broadcast media and screening. We work with a variety of clients; it is very important to us that there is a consistent color platform. Any changes in color between locations immediately launch a discussion on what went wrong. For film grading and screenings we are using DLP based systems. It is simply the only way to get a large enough screen size for film. I have noticed that there are some difficulties in using a DLP to display Rec709 based content. It is undesirable to calibrate a large screen to 100 nits in white. Even if you hit the white point it creates an unpleasant viewing environment for prolonged viewing. It is also difficult to get the illumination behind the screen to make a proper telecine setup. The last bit of difference is how the projector gamma is set. The Rec.709 specification sets an encoding transfer function of 2.2. CRT based grading monitors have a native gamma, as far as I have seen, of around 2.4~2.5. With the need to compensate for the loss of the behind the screen illumination and the white point luminance difference I have seen DLPs set from 2.2 to 2.6 with all possible setting in between. You can get a very good match between a CRT and a DLP based only on calibration setting. I have heard of at least one place that is using a 3d lut box in order to get a more precise match between a DLP and a BVM display. In some sense I agree that when you when you say that it is incorrect to be using CRT based systems to grade for LCD displays. On the other hand LCD display technology is advancing so rapidly a new specification would have to change from year to year. It would also be unfair to limit a specification for future displays based on the technological limits of current technology. Just think about the difference between the best LCD you could get 2 years ago compared to today. Consumers may be getting 50-60" displays but they are sitting far from them. It seems it is still appropriate to grade on a smaller monitor as long as you are sitting close to it. I am not a fan of multiple displays in a grading suite. You should, of course , dictate you setup based on your clients needs. I have found that ambiguitiy about color makes timing sessions more challenging for the colorist. I don't want to present a client with any choices of what the 'right' color is. In a DI suite each display is a master and represents what the client should expect as the final product. Joseph Slomka Color Scientist Sony Pictures Imageworks jslomka at imageworks.com From ramona at spectsoft.com Wed Nov 19 18:57:37 2008 From: ramona at spectsoft.com (Ramona Howard) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:57:37 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Dreamcolor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200811191057.38409.ramona@spectsoft.com> Gerlof, > Doesn¹t cinetal now make a box (davio) that does exactly that. So you can > grade in 10bit. That was my next step, to recommend a monitor that actually delivers. Cine-tal does support 10bit over HDMI. Ramona -- Ramona Howard CEO/Founder SpectSoft, Inc. 375 Johnson Ave Oakdale, CA 95361 Phone: 209.847.7812 extension 104 Fax: 209.847.7859 http://www.spectsoft.com Rave - Changing the way you think about uncompressed From rob at colorist.org Wed Nov 19 18:58:26 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 20:58:26 +0200 Subject: [Tig] CRT vs LCD vs DLP-Proj In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9815017B-8093-4893-A7E3-F5B5DB06EE3E@colorist.org> On Nov 19, 2008, at 8:49 PM, Joseph Slomka wrote: > I am not a fan of multiple displays in a grading suite. You should, > of course , dictate you setup based on your clients needs. I have > found that ambiguitiy about color makes timing sessions more > challenging for the colorist. I don't want to present a client with > any choices of what the 'right' color is. In a DI suite each display > is a master and represents what the client should expect as the > final product. it's nice to know that certain assumptions about having more than one monitor in a suite, based on years of experience, are confirmed. yet, with some monitors, meaning BVMs, you can get very close, such that differences are difficult to perceive. yet... there is still the concept, in a philosophical sense, of there being a "master monitor," perfectly (or as close to as possible) to which the second (client monitor) is matched. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From ramona at spectsoft.com Wed Nov 19 19:05:05 2008 From: ramona at spectsoft.com (Ramona Howard) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:05:05 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Dreamcolor In-Reply-To: <200811191057.38409.ramona@spectsoft.com> References: <200811191057.38409.ramona@spectsoft.com> Message-ID: <200811191105.05960.ramona@spectsoft.com> Here is a plug for the Cine-tal guys (they really do have great products) and we use them in our demos every chance we can get. The Davio is working with Dreamcolor already.  One of the Color Management library modes is 4 independent 65 point 3D LUTs running at the same time (adjustable quad split) connected to the Dream color. Cheers, Ramona -- Ramona Howard CEO/Founder SpectSoft, Inc. 375 Johnson Ave Oakdale, CA 95361 Phone: 209.847.7812 extension 104 Fax: 209.847.7859 http://www.spectsoft.com Rave - Changing the way you think about uncompressed The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, copy, distribute or disclose the e-mail or any part of its contents or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please e-mail the sender by replying to this message. All reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure no viruses are present in this e-mail. SpectSoft cannot accept responsibility for loss or damage arising from the use of this e-mail or attachments and recommend that you subject these to your virus checking procedures prior to use. From bob at bluescreen.com Wed Nov 19 19:52:42 2008 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:52:42 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Dreamcolor In-Reply-To: References: <200811190906.46308.ramona@spectsoft.com> Message-ID: <89r8i4hj4349sqiaeeunmua6kkpfgm6j75@4ax.com> >LCD panels in general are only 8 bit. While many will use a gamma >table with more than 8 bits, the actual panel driver devices bonded to >the back of the LCD panel are only 8 bits (or less). Even if you pump >in 10 bits of resolution you are unlikely to get anything close to 10 >bits out. > >The market for deep resolution professional display devices is >exceedingly small compared to the consumer market. As a result, this >tail does not wag the dog very much. There are more and more 10 bit consumer panels shipping. I bought a 40" Toshiba Regza native 1080p LCD TV from Costco for $1,100 shipped which has a full 10 bit panel (and a bunch of other features I also like). http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11303092 I don't think I'd want to shade cameras on it, specifically, but I'd be real curious to see how it looks with an HDSDI to HDMI converter and a real camera feeding it. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From rob at colorist.org Wed Nov 19 20:48:07 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 22:48:07 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Dreamcolor In-Reply-To: <200811191105.05960.ramona@spectsoft.com> References: <200811191057.38409.ramona@spectsoft.com> <200811191105.05960.ramona@spectsoft.com> Message-ID: <86BAADD0-2F0A-49D7-9007-580C8FBFDC61@colorist.org> hi ramona please disclaim any financial interest in the products you promote on the tig, thanks. Rob On Nov 19, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Ramona Howard wrote: > Here is a plug for the Cine-tal guys (they really do have great > products) and > we use them in our demos every chance we can get. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From bob at bluescreen.com Wed Nov 19 20:57:17 2008 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:57:17 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Dreamcolor In-Reply-To: <89r8i4hj4349sqiaeeunmua6kkpfgm6j75@4ax.com> References: <200811190906.46308.ramona@spectsoft.com> <89r8i4hj4349sqiaeeunmua6kkpfgm6j75@4ax.com> Message-ID: <17v8i4pcu4guh8rose7dte147j66lkb8ut@4ax.com> >There are more and more 10 bit consumer panels shipping. I bought a 40" >Toshiba Regza native 1080p LCD TV from Costco for $1,100 shipped which has a >full 10 bit panel (and a bunch of other features I also like). > >http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11303092 > >I don't think I'd want to shade cameras on it, specifically, but I'd be real >curious to see how it looks with an HDSDI to HDMI converter and a real camera >feeding it. Let me add a disclaimer: Aside from being a customer, I have nothing financially or otherwise to do with either Toshiba or Costco. Let me also say that I love buying electronic stuff at Costco because I have 90 days to return it for ANY reason, and they usually double the manufacturer's warranty as well. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From rob at colorist.org Wed Nov 19 21:02:08 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:02:08 +0200 Subject: [Tig] colorist reels and promos Message-ID: <9DD78523-FF60-4654-AB02-EEDBEED549E4@colorist.org> Colorist reels and promos are served at http://reels.colorist.org with one in rotation at http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 contact me for details on how to get your material in rotation. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder 17 years of TiG rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Wed Nov 19 21:53:42 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 15:53:42 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Tig] Dreamcolor In-Reply-To: <89r8i4hj4349sqiaeeunmua6kkpfgm6j75@4ax.com> References: <200811190906.46308.ramona@spectsoft.com> <89r8i4hj4349sqiaeeunmua6kkpfgm6j75@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Nov 2008, Bob Kertesz wrote: > > There are more and more 10 bit consumer panels shipping. I bought a 40" > Toshiba Regza native 1080p LCD TV from Costco for $1,100 shipped which has a > full 10 bit panel (and a bunch of other features I also like). How do you know that this is a "full 10 bit" panel and what does that even mean? Does it mean that if you have a high grade analyzer that the analyzer will be able to measure 1024 discrete and linear-stepped levels for each tristimulus color? Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From cased at atlab.com.au Wed Nov 19 22:04:26 2008 From: cased at atlab.com.au (Dominic Case) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:04:26 +1100 Subject: [Tig] Re 100hrs TC now totally OT, but here we go anyway Message-ID: <7DA1B69B041ED511A59300508BF33B510292EA97@atlabserver1.ahl.com.au> >What gets quite confusing is that different countries change to spring and summer time on different days, That's not the half of it, Rob. In Australia, northern (tropical) states like Queensland don't observe daylight saving. Other states do. Until this year they all had different dates for the changeover as it's a state-regulated thing, not federal. This year they have agreed on common dates. Simpler? Well, not so fast. Nobody told Bill Gates. All the operating systems and software that have automatic daylight saving correction built in are still set for the old dates. There is a patch, but not everyone manages to load it correctly. So DST arrived last month, the computer did nothing. Then this month, after you've got sorted out, it decided to change. If you use Outlook, all your appointments suddenly become an hour out of kilter. That is, the ones you entered before the time change (or is it the ones you entered before the time didn't change but your computer thought it should have done?). If youar on a corporate Outlook system, we can assume that the server is set correctly, it's just your own laptop that needs to be fixed up. Or can we? Last week I travelled from Sydney (NSW, on daylight saving) up to Brisbane, Queensland, not on daylight saving (still on 'God's time'). I set my watch back the required number of years plus one hour. The laptop? I left that as it was, just for simplicity. As far as it knew, it was still in NSW. But it had no idea what the correct time was. As for my Blackberry - maybe newer ones have heard of daylight saving, but mine hasn't. Too hard. And that's all in one country, on one day. Sydney to LA? Leave here at lunchtime, arrive for breakfast the same day. I reckon daylight saving errors and the international dateline cause more confusion than Y2K was ever likely to. _________________________________ Dominic Case Atlab Australia ________________________________ views expressed here may be mine alone ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ From joe at xpldddgrm.com Wed Nov 19 21:35:30 2008 From: joe at xpldddgrm.com (Joe Beirne) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 21:35:30 -0000 Subject: [Tig] CRT vs LCD vs DLP-Proj In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is getting more complicated before it gets simpler. One LCD manufacturer we are speaking to about this dilemma is showing a proof of concept where their calibrated display can emulate (via internal LUTs) various popular consumer flat panel devices, ie. a Kuro look, or a Bravia look, etc. It reminds me of those applications that can emulate historical guitar amp sounds with fine levels of detail, like "2x12 OB Darkface '65 (US)" vs "2x12 OB Darkface '65 (UK)" (which I would imagine distinguishes the background hum between 50 and 60Hz?). -- Joe Postworks, NY ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ From owen at ywwg.com Wed Nov 19 22:19:07 2008 From: owen at ywwg.com (Owen Williams) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:19:07 -0500 Subject: [Tig] "Dexter" color grading Message-ID: <1227133147.7508.18.camel@ywwg> I've have started watching the show Dexter on DVD (Season 1, so no spoilers :P), and I've begun to annoy my girlfriend with my comments about the color grade. To me, it looks bad. Black levels in particular often go way up and don't match shot-to-shot within a scene. Then again, the saturation and color palette look carefully chosen, with deliberate strokes of blood-red. So I've been trying to figure out if this is a stylistic choice, a product of technical choice, or just poor execution. Does anyone know anything first-hand about the series, or noticed what I'm seeing? (My tv at home is a Sony LCD rear-projection screen, and while it's not grading-quality by any means, this is the only show I've noticed with this type of bouncing blacklevel) Owen Williams -- Freelance Online Editor / Colorist 617.669.3020 linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/owengwilliams reel : http://www.vimeo.com/2076321 blog : http://ywwg.com/wordpress/?cat=36 imdb : http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1741110/ From bob at bluescreen.com Wed Nov 19 22:54:29 2008 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:54:29 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Dreamcolor In-Reply-To: References: <200811190906.46308.ramona@spectsoft.com> <89r8i4hj4349sqiaeeunmua6kkpfgm6j75@4ax.com> Message-ID: >How do you know that this is a "full 10 bit" panel At some point one has to take the manufacturer's word for the performance and specs of their products, until such time as they are found to be exaggerating or liars. >and what does that even mean? To me, the difference between an 8 bit and a 10 bit panel is that when I'm looking at an image with subtle gradation, the 10 bit display will show less stepping than a panel rated at 8 bits. Of course, that means that things have to be 10 bit all the way through the chain, which is almost impossible considering the number of fools who have access to hardware which can torture it. It's pretty much inevitable that somewhere along the long road from shoot or transfer to TV, someone will round or truncate the top smallest two bits. And most compression pretty much blows all that away anyway, sucking mightily as it does. But if I have a live camera that's putting out 4:2:2 10 bit HD-SDI, and I convert that with some piece of hardware to HDMI 1.3 or better so it stays 10 bit, and I shoot a white cyc with a single light with an orange gel on it and feed it to two monitors, one with an 8 bit panel and the other with a 10 bit panel, I expect to see less banding/stepping on the 10 bit panel. That's what 10 bit means to me. What does it mean to you? --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From clark at garnetdev.com Wed Nov 19 23:09:24 2008 From: clark at garnetdev.com (Clark E. Bierbaum) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:09:24 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Re 100hrs TC In-Reply-To: <090AABB6E4E8BD4D9E38C93EF065450501A3160D@exg01.davsys.com> References: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC6340184BBE6@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> <090AABB6E4E8BD4D9E38C93EF065450501A3160D@exg01.davsys.com> Message-ID: I also was a MC op in the 80's and was paid by the hour so it didn't matter money wise. The best shift was Sunday overnight because they shut down xmitter after "Life Styles of the Rich and Famous" for maintenance for at least an hour - one time they stayed down for 4 hours. I always used the time to cart spots - good old RCA TCR-100! On TC. When I used to do dailies all most every 35mm lab roll would be less than 30min so I would use half hours after running out of hours. Eg: Reel 13 punch would be 1:30:00:00. Clark Bierbaum Contractor / Realtor / Old MC / Colorist guy Charlotte, NC On Nov 19, 2008, at 11:08 AM, Bob Caniglia wrote: > 2021 subscribers as of November 2008 > Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG > www.flandersscientific.com > http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > I worked overnight master control back in the 80's, > at 2 am, you jump an hour in the spring and you get > to work an hour less....in the fall you get screwed > and work an extra hour. > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > From ramona at spectsoft.com Thu Nov 20 05:51:27 2008 From: ramona at spectsoft.com (Ramona Howard) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 21:51:27 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Stereoscopic Demo - Berkeley, Ca In-Reply-To: <9DD78523-FF60-4654-AB02-EEDBEED549E4@colorist.org> References: <9DD78523-FF60-4654-AB02-EEDBEED549E4@colorist.org> Message-ID: <200811192151.27419.ramona@spectsoft.com> Wanted to give the list a heads up for a demo that is being put together for December in Northern California. A little off topic for the Tig but not much these days..... The dates are December 8th, 9th and 10th. We are working out the time slots and should have this info later next week. The location will be in Berkeley at a well know VFX facility.  We will be shooting miniatures with 3 different rigs.  A stereo Iconix rig, a stereo Phantom 65 and a single Phantom HD rig.  Both the Phantoms will be shot high speed. I won't say too much yet about the exacts of what the demo will be, except that there will be some new stereo gear no one has seen :)  This is a RSVP event as space is limited. You can either do this with me or if you belong to either the DGA or VES thru them (you should get info on the event shortly). I will post the details as soon as they are firm. Cheers, Ramona -- Ramona Howard CEO/Founder SpectSoft, Inc. 375 Johnson Ave Oakdale, CA 95361 Phone: 209.847.7812 extension 104 Fax: 209.847.7859 http://www.spectsoft.com Rave - Changing the way you think about uncompressed From underscan at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 13:22:12 2008 From: underscan at gmail.com (underscan at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:22:12 +0100 Subject: [Tig] room size for grading suite In-Reply-To: <1227133147.7508.18.camel@ywwg> References: <1227133147.7508.18.camel@ywwg> Message-ID: <2CE0CE1A-5D35-4C45-A5D4-D59F5E836DAB@gmail.com> hi what room size is at least required or most commonly used for a grading suite where color correction is done on either a projector or monitor? what are other people on this list using sizewise? cheerz mark From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Thu Nov 20 16:47:39 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:47:39 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Tig] Dreamcolor In-Reply-To: References: <200811190906.46308.ramona@spectsoft.com> <89r8i4hj4349sqiaeeunmua6kkpfgm6j75@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Nov 2008, Bob Kertesz wrote: > >> How do you know that this is a "full 10 bit" panel > > At some point one has to take the manufacturer's word for the performance and > specs of their products, until such time as they are found to be exaggerating > or liars. I think that it is commonly accepted that consumer electronics manufacturers are exaggerators and liars (until proven otherwise). That is why cheapo consumer ink jet printers advertise 4800 DPI while expensive professional ink jet printers may only advertise 600 or 1200 DPI. In the consumer world, numbers are used for marketing and often have no actual meaning. >> and what does that even mean? > > To me, the difference between an 8 bit and a 10 bit panel is that when I'm > looking at an image with subtle gradation, the 10 bit display will show less > stepping than a panel rated at 8 bits. So this means that if the 8-bit panel has an actual precision of 7 bits and the 10-bit panel has an actual precision of 8 bits, then you are happy? > That's what 10 bit means to me. > > What does it mean to you? It means that 1024 discrete input levels result in 1024 discrete output levels, arranged in the expected order (i.e. increasing input value results in increasing output value). This objective is quite difficult to accomplish using a large panel of liquid crystal material which is strobed for update rather than using a persistent driver stimulus. There is also the problem that LCD is a linear light device, but the 10 bits which are input are usually gamma corrected so that the LCD display needs to include a gamma table which maps from gamma corrected values (i.e. Rec.709) to the linear-light stimulus values actually needed in the display. Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From rob at colorist.org Thu Nov 20 18:08:43 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:08:43 +0200 Subject: [Tig] room size for grading suite In-Reply-To: <2CE0CE1A-5D35-4C45-A5D4-D59F5E836DAB@gmail.com> References: <1227133147.7508.18.camel@ywwg> <2CE0CE1A-5D35-4C45-A5D4-D59F5E836DAB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <032C37D4-879D-4BA6-B97C-9C1381EE49AE@colorist.org> hi mark, can you identify yourself with name and affiliation in TIG posts, it helps get you more responses. thanks. > > what are other people on this list using sizewise? > > cheerz > mark -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From throb at throb.net Thu Nov 20 18:46:04 2008 From: throb at throb.net (throb - Robert Nederhorst) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:46:04 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Dreamcolor In-Reply-To: References: <200811190906.46308.ramona@spectsoft.com> <89r8i4hj4349sqiaeeunmua6kkpfgm6j75@4ax.com> Message-ID: <7b08c40a0811201046h40eb280en48db47dd52fb06ff@mail.gmail.com> HP has a complete LUT setup on this display. It is 10 bit at least visually. the color and gradient representation is an order of magnitude better than anything else I have seen. Dreamworks has settled on this for artist displays. I can't wait to put it on the desktop with the new nvidia 10 bit output driver. rob throb | vfx | speedshape | la | http://throb.net On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 8:47 AM, Bob Friesenhahn < bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us> wrote: > > > This objective is quite difficult to accomplish using a large panel of > liquid crystal material which is strobed for update rather than using a > persistent driver stimulus. There is also the problem that LCD is a linear > light device, but the 10 bits which are input are usually gamma corrected so > that the LCD display needs to include a gamma table which maps from gamma > corrected values (i.e. Rec.709) to the linear-light stimulus values actually > needed in the display. From rob at colorist.org Thu Nov 20 19:29:33 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:29:33 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Senior Colorist Quiz. Message-ID: <5E165EE6-5E1A-4A82-9747-E13A991F5A78@colorist.org> see if you're a real Senior Colorist, take the quiz at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/ColoristQuiz (text only, 18 questions. will eventually evolve into something more useful, hopefully. anyone wanting to submit questions [20 to 30 would be an ideal number] please contact me.) -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From jslomka at imageworks.com Thu Nov 20 19:44:09 2008 From: jslomka at imageworks.com (Joseph Slomka) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:44:09 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Panels vs displays In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bob, The television he purchased has a 10bit panel. That does not mean it is a 10 bit display. I tend to believe the claims of panel manufacturers. The same as I would believe the spec sheet of any other electronic part. However this only means that when the panel is driven natively will you get 10 bits. Unless you are using an adjustable display backlight you will throw away some bits adjusting the color temperature, display gamut, and black level. So a 10 bit panel means only at optimal conditions do you get 10 display bits out. This also means 6 or 8 bit panels will get you even lesser results. For a consumer set where 8 bits is all they can really expect to see a 10bit panel should give a near perfect image. For a professional display I imagine that there is some clever engineering going on to get the full 10 bits with all of the other color requirements covered. Take all of this with a grain of salt. I don't make displays. -Joseph Slomka Color Scientist Sony Pictures Imageworks On Wed, 19 Nov 2008, Bob Kertesz wrote: > > There are more and more 10 bit consumer panels shipping. I bought a 40" > Toshiba Regza native 1080p LCD TV from Costco for $1,100 shipped which > has a full 10 bit panel (and a bunch of other features I also like). How do you know that this is a "full 10 bit" panel and what does that even mean? Does it mean that if you have a high grade analyzer that the analyzer will be able to measure 1024 discrete and linear-stepped levels for each tristimulus color? Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From lucas at assimilateinc.com Thu Nov 20 21:11:19 2008 From: lucas at assimilateinc.com (Lucas Wilson) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:11:19 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Dreamcolor References: <200811190906.46308.ramona@spectsoft.com> Message-ID: <002501c94b54$89765720$9c630560$@com> The DisplayPort connector on the Dreamcolor is 10-bit. The new NVidia cards all have a DisplayPort connector on them that supports 10-bit output. And... SCRATCH supports true 10-bit out of the DisplayPort. We are doing a lot of internal tests with these cards, new drivers, and the Dreamcolor monitor to get things right, and stable. Best, Lucas Lucas Wilson ------------ Director, Business Development ASSIMILATE, inc. (makers of SCRATCH) LA, CA, USA (currently in Tokyo for Interbee) -----Original Message----- From: Ramona Howard My suggestion would be to push the converter companies to make the switch so new monitors like these can be used and then we can really begin to make apple to apple comparisons to CRTs. Until then it is more like an apple to a pear :) From rob at cinelab.com Thu Nov 20 23:21:13 2008 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:21:13 -0500 Subject: [Tig] 888 DUI Parts Message-ID: <40ECECE6-D0BD-4D32-8372-4668DFF6167B@cinelab.com> Hi Anybody have the following: A IMC Card for a 888 DUI A set of used network panels -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Filmmaker Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From jeffkreines at mindspring.com Fri Nov 21 09:46:04 2008 From: jeffkreines at mindspring.com (Jeff Kreines) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:46:04 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Dreamcolor In-Reply-To: <002501c94b54$89765720$9c630560$@com> References: <200811190906.46308.ramona@spectsoft.com> <002501c94b54$89765720$9c630560$@com> Message-ID: <842E5966-0361-459D-BDC6-9564411662BC@mindspring.com> So when will there be a 30" 2560 X 1600 Dreamcolor? That will handle 2048 x 1536 material, though I need more resolution than that for some stuff these days. On Nov 20, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Lucas Wilson wrote: > 2021 subscribers as of November 2008 > Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG > www.flandersscientific.com > http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > The DisplayPort connector on the Dreamcolor is 10-bit. The new > NVidia cards > all have a DisplayPort connector on them that supports 10-bit > output. And... > SCRATCH supports true 10-bit out of the DisplayPort. We are doing a > lot of > internal tests with these cards, new drivers, and the Dreamcolor > monitor to > get things right, and stable. > > Best, > > Lucas > > Lucas Wilson > ------------ > Director, Business Development > ASSIMILATE, inc. (makers of SCRATCH) > LA, CA, USA > (currently in Tokyo for Interbee) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ramona Howard > > My suggestion would be to push the converter companies to make the > switch so > > new monitors like these can be used and then we can really begin to > make > apple to apple comparisons to CRTs. Until then it is more like an > apple to a > > pear :) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 21 10:46:31 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:46:31 +0200 Subject: [Tig] colorist tests Message-ID: that quiz on the wiki as some have pointed out is based on knowledge that has no bearing on the qualifications for a senior colorist, unless we define 'senior colorist' as one who has been working for 20+ years in either NYC or LA. The upgraded wiki allows for evaluation tests using images, which opens up the possibility of doing evaluations by various colorists, it would be interesting to present, for example, several different grades of different shots, and have the colorist select one or more based on taste or other criteria. When time permits I'll work on this, or if anyone else would like to, I can get them started on the 'quiz' wiki markup language (covered extensively at http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Help:Quiz ; see especially toward the bottom of that page, showing images and question/response variables). Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From martin-p at moving-picture.com Fri Nov 21 11:22:35 2008 From: martin-p at moving-picture.com (Martin Parsons) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:22:35 -0000 Subject: [Tig] Panels vs displays In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB5817@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> Joseph Slomka wrote: > For a professional display I > imagine that there is some clever engineering going on to get the full 10 > bits with all of the other color requirements covered. I believe this is achieved by the monitor working internally at a higher bit depth, typically 16bits. This was used as a distraction by some sales reps I've come across. Me: Is the panel 8 bits or 10 bits ? Vendor: It's 16 bits internally Me: But is the panel 8 bits or 10 bits ? Vendor: Everything's processed 16 bits internally etc. Some vendors of HD (8 bit) flat panel monitors used to put a "black level stretch" which modified the tone curve to lift some of the black detail to give an apparent increase of black detail - but of course reduced the contrast ratio of the mid tones and highlights. And if you applied a LUT in the path the whole image looked awful. However at least they tried to get around the limitations of (8 bit) flat panel technology. Martin Martin Parsons Head of Imaging MPC Soho, London www.moving-picture.com From frank at opticalart.de Fri Nov 21 12:01:19 2008 From: frank at opticalart.de (Frank Hellmann) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:01:19 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Panels vs displays In-Reply-To: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB5817@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> References: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB5817@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> Message-ID: <4926A30F.4080001@opticalart.de> Martin Parsons schrieb: > Joseph Slomka wrote: > > >> For a professional display I >> imagine that there is some clever engineering going on to get the full >> > 10 > >> bits with all of the other color requirements covered. >> > > I believe this is achieved by the monitor working internally at a higher > bit depth, typically 16bits. > A simple test you can do is to feed a black to white ramp from a deck to the monitor (Usually sales reps are playing back demo reels from an HD capable deck, so just set that to internal testsignal, ramp 100%). On a CRT you don't see any bandings, but on regular 8bit LCDs you will see them quite well. This can give you a good idea how good the conversion is done internally, like the greys shouldn't vary between a line being a bit red and the line next to it being a bit greenish. Best, Frank... -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- OPTICAL ART Film & Special-Effects GmbH Waterloohain 6-8 Frank Hellmann DI Supervisor 22769 Hamburg frank at opticalart.de http://www.opticalart.de Tel: ++49 40 5111051 Fax: ++49 40 43169199 Sitz der Gesellschaft: Hamburg, Amtsgericht Hamburg HRB 384 70 Geschäftsführer: Christian Burgdorff, Harald Lehmann From jpo at prestodigital.ca Fri Nov 21 16:37:10 2008 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:37:10 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Panels vs displays In-Reply-To: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB5817@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> References: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB5817@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> Message-ID: <380FDEA1-20A2-4C12-99EB-F2946360193D@prestodigital.ca> > > Me: Is the panel 8 bits or 10 bits ? > Vendor: It's 16 bits internally > Me: But is the panel 8 bits or 10 bits ? > Vendor: Everything's processed 16 bits internally > Reminds me of camera/workflow demo I sat in on about 4 years ago where "benefits" of continuous capture to data cards was extolled. "then you just load all the data from the card" and the users in the room said "what if I just want the good bits?" and the vendor sez, well you can throw the bad bits out, and the operators all said but what if I just want to load the good bits and the vendor said you can throw out the bad bits later and the ... Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Fri Nov 21 18:00:44 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:00:44 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Tig] Panels vs displays In-Reply-To: <4926A30F.4080001@opticalart.de> References: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB5817@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> <4926A30F.4080001@opticalart.de> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Nov 2008, Frank Hellmann wrote: > > A simple test you can do is to feed a black to white ramp from a deck to the > monitor (Usually sales reps are playing back demo reels from an HD capable > deck, so just set that to internal testsignal, ramp 100%). On a CRT you don't > see any bandings, but on regular 8bit LCDs you will see them quite well. This > can give you a good idea how good the conversion is done internally, like the > greys shouldn't vary between a line being a bit red and the line next to it > being a bit greenish. The effectiveness of this test depends on the available contrast ratio. My own 8-bit LCD panel does pretty well at this test but its contrast ratio is not very wide. The vendor of my panel specifies that it does produce 256 discrete levels and provided a CD with test images to prove it. Those of you who have 16-bit GraphicsMagick installed can generate a nice test image with gm convert -size 1080x1920 gradient:white-black -rotate 90 gradient.tiff To experiment with several actual bit depths: gm convert -size 1080x1920 gradient:white-black -rotate 90 -depth 6 gradient6.tiff gm convert -size 1080x1920 gradient:white-black -rotate 90 -depth 7 gradient7.tiff gm convert -size 1080x1920 gradient:white-black -rotate 90 -depth 8 gradient8.tiff gm convert -size 1080x1920 gradient:white-black -rotate 90 -depth 9 gradient9.tiff If you throw up a gradient image at full depth, and it looks anything like the gradient images with intentionally reduced depth, then you are not getting the full 8 bits out of the panel. Note that you may still be fooled if the display uses dithering to emulate more levels. Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From myron at posthouse.com Fri Nov 21 19:45:42 2008 From: myron at posthouse.com (Myron@posthouse.com) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:45:42 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Copernicus Parts Message-ID: Hi, I am trying to fire up a Copernicus on a Quadra and probably need a good working IO Touch. And/or, would be interested in any system in any condition that could work with a Quadra. Myron Lenenski CinePost 2160 Kingston Ct. Ste.N Marietta, GA 30067 678-238-0800 www.posthouse.com 404-784-1771 (cell) From lawrence.towers at nyu.edu Sat Nov 22 01:29:59 2008 From: lawrence.towers at nyu.edu (Lawrence Towers) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:29:59 -0500 Subject: [Tig] 8 bit display In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "A simple test you can do is to feed a black to white ramp from a deck to the monitor (Usually sales reps are playing back demo reels from an HD capable deck, so just set that to internal testsignal, ramp 100%). On a CRT you don't see any bandings, but on regular 8bit LCDs you will see them quite well." What HD Capable deck? If it's 8 bit it won't tell you much will it?... From rob at colorist.org Sun Nov 23 12:34:42 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 14:34:42 +0200 Subject: [Tig] a meaningful grading Q+A Message-ID: I can construct a kind of quiz, though I wouldn't call it that, rather a Q&A of grading examples, perhaps combined with a color perception survey, with all kinds of variations on the presentation and results, weighted for points, feedback on the answers, etc. all this on the wiki for public consumption. But I would like to get some ideas on how this could be done, along the lines of a presentation of images as thumbnails, clickable to larger size, that could be evaluated by the person taking the "test" or "survey." what sort of parameters or examples would be useful? we'd have to begin by providing a lineup chart :) (grayscale, and maybe Macbeth...) much appreciate any ideas, please post to the group. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Sun Nov 23 14:50:52 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:50:52 +0200 Subject: [Tig] best auto racing film ever (OT) Message-ID: I just watched Le Mans (McQueen, 1971) and the footage of the race was extraordinary. Could someone point me to a film that might come close? a tall order, maybe. (please respond personally, as this is kind of Off Topic). Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at cinelab.com Sun Nov 23 14:54:16 2008 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 09:54:16 -0500 Subject: [Tig] panels vs displays plasma Message-ID: <3DF8100A-B3E1-451E-BA9C-8C7CF12F0208@cinelab.com> How about the newest generation plasma sets/ The Pioneer Kuro displays look better to me than any lcd I have seen are they 10bit now? -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Filmmaker Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From TCurren at aol.com Sun Nov 23 19:44:30 2008 From: TCurren at aol.com (TCurren at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 14:44:30 EST Subject: [Tig] Dreamcolor Message-ID: Bit of good news here, Greg Staten, a long time Avid employee who really understands colorists and there needs, just left Avid to work on the DreamColor project at HP. Technically he is the "Solutions Architect" for the DreamColor monitor series. He is very aware of the need for SDI inputs. Terence Curren www.AlphaDogs.TV Burbank, CA From owen at ywwg.com Sun Nov 23 21:03:00 2008 From: owen at ywwg.com (Owen Williams) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:03:00 -0500 Subject: [Tig] a meaningful grading Q+A In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1227474180.27376.45.camel@ywwg> Maybe some questions could show problem images (incorrect white-balance (easy), missing channels, bad film processing (??), some sort of telecine issue I wouldn't know, etc) and ask the person to correctly identify the problems. A fun one might be, "which of the following images represents SMPTE bars with only the blue channel visible?" Or red, or green, etc. Building on the plasma / display thread, there could be questions asking about issues with display technologies, like LCD black level and interlacing, or CRT bloom, that sort of thing. owen On Sun, 2008-11-23 at 14:34 +0200, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > 2021 subscribers as of November 2008 > Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG > www.flandersscientific.com > http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > I can construct a kind of quiz, though I wouldn't call it that, rather > a Q&A of grading examples, perhaps combined with a color perception > survey, with all kinds of variations on the presentation and results, > weighted for points, feedback on the answers, etc. all this on the > wiki > for public consumption. > > But I would like to get some ideas on how this could be done, along > the lines of a presentation of images as thumbnails, clickable to larger > size, that could be evaluated by the person taking the "test" or > "survey." > > what sort of parameters or examples would be useful? > we'd have to begin by providing a lineup chart :) (grayscale, and maybe > Macbeth...) > > much appreciate any ideas, please post to the group. > > Rob > -- > Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder > rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > > From grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk Sun Nov 23 23:32:40 2008 From: grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 23:32:40 -0000 Subject: [Tig] best auto racing film ever (OT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6986F701FD80496B9F2E1CAC8DB2B2A4@Sprocket> Vanishing Point has stuck with me ever since I saw it as a kid .... And of course "Dual" which I believe was SS's first film. I think it was Paul Newman's car from that film that was used for a commercial recently, parking at a house in San Fransisco and as Paul gets out its mixes into Bob's Ford Focus in Essex .. Or something like that. Graham Collett Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Rob Lingelbach Sent: 23 November 2008 14:51 To: tig at colorist.org Group Subject: [Tig] best auto racing film ever (OT) 2021 subscribers as of November 2008 Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG www.flandersscientific.com http://reels.colorist.org ==== I just watched Le Mans (McQueen, 1971) and the footage of the race was extraordinary. Could someone point me to a film that might come close? a tall order, maybe. (please respond personally, as this is kind of Off Topic). Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From Laurence.Claydon at deluxedigital.co.uk Mon Nov 24 11:33:25 2008 From: Laurence.Claydon at deluxedigital.co.uk (Laurence Claydon) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:33:25 +0000 Subject: [Tig] best auto racing film ever (OT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rob, Grand Prix (1966).... hardly a piece of cinematic history, but definitely a snapshot of mid-1960's formula 1 with pretty much every noteworthy racing driver of the day took part. Also shot 65mm I believe. Laurence Claydon Deluxe Digital London -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Rob Lingelbach Sent: 23 November 2008 14:51 To: tig at colorist.org Group Subject: [Tig] best auto racing film ever (OT) 2021 subscribers as of November 2008 Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG www.flandersscientific.com http://reels.colorist.org ==== I just watched Le Mans (McQueen, 1971) and the footage of the race was extraordinary. Could someone point me to a film that might come close? a tall order, maybe. (please respond personally, as this is kind of Off Topic). Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ From ian_rosher at pandora-int.com Mon Nov 24 12:30:53 2008 From: ian_rosher at pandora-int.com (Ian Rosher) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:30:53 +0000 Subject: [Tig] best auto racing film ever (OT) In-Reply-To: <6986F701FD80496B9F2E1CAC8DB2B2A4@Sprocket> References: <6986F701FD80496B9F2E1CAC8DB2B2A4@Sprocket> Message-ID: <53DF955A-EF8B-4A1A-840B-C2FCBD875DDB@pandora-int.com> For petrol-heads everywhere, the most iconic car clip ever must be the 9 minute clip 'C’etait Un Rendezvous' Originally thought to be a Ferrari, it was recently discovered to be a Mercedes with a Ferrari engine dubbed over. A good way to see Paris in 9 minutes flat!! Ian Rosher The Pandora Petrol Head Club. On 23 Nov 2008, at 23:32, Graham Collett wrote: > 2021 subscribers as of November 2008 > Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG > www.flandersscientific.com > http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > Vanishing Point has stuck with me ever since I saw it as a kid .... > And > of course "Dual" which I believe was SS's first film. > I think it was Paul Newman's car from that film that was used for a > commercial recently, parking at a house in San Fransisco and as Paul > gets out its mixes into Bob's Ford Focus in Essex .. Or something like > that. > > Graham Collett > Sprockets(telecine) Ltd > www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On > Behalf Of Rob Lingelbach > Sent: 23 November 2008 14:51 > To: tig at colorist.org Group > Subject: [Tig] best auto racing film ever (OT) > > > 2021 subscribers as of November 2008 > Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG > www.flandersscientific.com http://reels.colorist.org ==== > > > I just watched Le Mans (McQueen, 1971) and the footage of the race was > extraordinary. Could someone point me to a film that might come > close? a tall order, maybe. (please respond personally, as this is > kind of Off Topic). > > Rob > -- > Rob Lingelbach > rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > > _____________________________________________________________________ > This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by Verizon Business > Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For > further information visit http://www.verizonbusiness.com/uk _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by Verizon Business Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.verizonbusiness.com/uk From adrian at autotv.co.uk Mon Nov 24 12:58:29 2008 From: adrian at autotv.co.uk (Adrian Thomas) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:58:29 +0000 Subject: [Tig] best auto racing film ever (OT) In-Reply-To: <53DF955A-EF8B-4A1A-840B-C2FCBD875DDB@pandora-int.com> References: <6986F701FD80496B9F2E1CAC8DB2B2A4@Sprocket> <53DF955A-EF8B-4A1A-840B-C2FCBD875DDB@pandora-int.com> Message-ID: REAL petrolheads would be better advised to seek out Jean Louis Morey's wonderful "Climb Dance"... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3368948773832597270 -- Adrian Thomas AUTOMATIC TELEVISION LONDON UK WC2N 4DU www.autotv.co.uk +44 (0) 20 7240 2073 -- On 24 Nov 2008, at 12:30, Ian Rosher wrote: > > For petrol-heads everywhere, the most iconic car clip ever must be > the 9 minute clip 'C’etait Un Rendezvous' > > Originally thought to be a Ferrari, it was recently discovered to > be a Mercedes with a Ferrari engine dubbed over. A good way to see > Paris in 9 minutes flat!! > > Ian Rosher > The Pandora Petrol Head Club. > From rob at colorist.org Mon Nov 24 12:37:45 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 14:37:45 +0200 Subject: [Tig] best auto racing film ever (OT) In-Reply-To: <53DF955A-EF8B-4A1A-840B-C2FCBD875DDB@pandora-int.com> References: <6986F701FD80496B9F2E1CAC8DB2B2A4@Sprocket> <53DF955A-EF8B-4A1A-840B-C2FCBD875DDB@pandora-int.com> Message-ID: <81318C09-43CC-439D-AB80-102017AA7C90@colorist.org> On Nov 24, 2008, at 2:30 PM, Ian Rosher wrote: > For petrol-heads everywhere, the most iconic car clip ever must be > the 9 minute clip 'C’etait Un Rendezvous' > > Originally thought to be a Ferrari, it was recently discovered to be > a Mercedes with a Ferrari engine dubbed over. A good way to see > Paris in 9 minutes flat!! > > Ian Rosher > The Pandora Petrol Head Club. yet the introduction to the film says it was done without any 'effects' whatsoever :) in 1983, Bob Festa and I transferred a 16mm print of that film, and it was quite enjoyable. Claude Lelouche (forgive me if the spelling is wrong) shot it. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From bob.micheletti at nbcuni.com Mon Nov 24 19:25:49 2008 From: bob.micheletti at nbcuni.com (Micheletti, Bob (NBC Universal)) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:25:49 -0800 Subject: [Tig] best auto racing film ever (OT) In-Reply-To: References: <6986F701FD80496B9F2E1CAC8DB2B2A4@Sprocket><53DF955A-EF8B-4A1A-840B-C2FCBD875DDB@pandora-int.com> Message-ID: <7E83FFCD85919542AB2BEAFFC0004C661DA65CBF@UCTMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com> Thank you for that one Adrian. A great view of Pikes Peak. I love "Grand Prix", Le Mans, and also "Winning" with Paul Newman but if you want to see a modern release take a look at "Super Speedway". It was an IMAX doc and must have been quite a ride in an IMAX theater. It is quite good in the home theater with surround. About 4 or 5 years ago at NAB, every one was showing it on their projectors and monitors as a demo. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120245/ Another fun doc is "Dust to Glory" which presents a look at the Baja off road race. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0386423/ Bob Micheletti Engineer Universal Pictures (over the hill from) Hollywood > REAL petrolheads would be better advised to seek out Jean > Louis Morey's wonderful "Climb Dance"... > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3368948773832597270 > > -- > Adrian Thomas From owen at ywwg.com Mon Nov 24 16:33:54 2008 From: owen at ywwg.com (Owen Williams) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:33:54 -0500 Subject: [Tig] a meaningful grading Q+A In-Reply-To: <84E41346-1121-4F84-A7D7-D2AC3376CDBB@colorist.org> References: <1227474180.27376.45.camel@ywwg> <84E41346-1121-4F84-A7D7-D2AC3376CDBB@colorist.org> Message-ID: <1227544434.27376.79.camel@ywwg> On Mon, 2008-11-24 at 17:51 +0200, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > > > A fun one might be, "which of the following images represents SMPTE > > bars > > with only the blue channel visible?" Or red, or green, etc. > > > that might be a little too easy :) Well there have to be some gimmes that even I can get :P owen From rob at cinelab.com Mon Nov 24 17:14:23 2008 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:14:23 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Panels vs displays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F7B8826-831A-44E5-877B-99FB9479F6FB@cinelab.com> > I am sorry to say that I am unfamaliar with Kuro Televisions. 50' and 60" (60 I think) Plasma panels made by Pioneer high end consumer sets great color and incredible blacks. -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Filmmaker Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From rob at colorist.org Mon Nov 24 15:51:54 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 17:51:54 +0200 Subject: [Tig] a meaningful grading Q+A In-Reply-To: <1227474180.27376.45.camel@ywwg> References: <1227474180.27376.45.camel@ywwg> Message-ID: <84E41346-1121-4F84-A7D7-D2AC3376CDBB@colorist.org> On Nov 23, 2008, at 11:03 PM, Owen Williams wrote: > Maybe some questions could show problem images (incorrect white- > balance > (easy), missing channels, bad film processing (??), some sort of > telecine issue I wouldn't know, etc) and ask the person to correctly > identify the problems. hm, will think about that Owen, thanks for the suggestions. the challenge will be getting the translation into sRGB correct for the web. I already go nuts when sending clients stills of session grades, in jpg and then the client looks on a laptop with different gamma... (gamma questions would be interesting for the project, yet, how can I be sure... [cue the 4 Seasons' > A fun one might be, "which of the following images represents SMPTE > bars > with only the blue channel visible?" Or red, or green, etc. that might be a little too easy :) > Building on the plasma / display thread, there could be questions > asking > about issues with display technologies, like LCD black level and > interlacing, or CRT bloom, that sort of thing. good suggestions, will take them into account, thanks. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk Mon Nov 24 22:16:41 2008 From: grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 22:16:41 -0000 Subject: [Tig] best auto racing film ever (OT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Grand Prix .... Yes, that was grwat ... I don't tink I saw the 65mm version though .. More like a 16mm bicycle print. Graham Collett Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk From rob at colorist.org Mon Nov 24 23:13:15 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 01:13:15 +0200 Subject: [Tig] color analyzer question. Message-ID: <1769523E-8133-49ED-9978-AE610DC2A894@colorist.org> we don't normally encourage postings from people who won't identify themselves, but I have a friend who needs an urgent answer to this question and he would prefer, because of trademarks involved, not to post it himself. So I ask in the spirit of giving help where it's needed, the following question, answers either to the group, or if to me, I will forward appropriately, thank you for your understanding. I will request an advice from you or from the TIG regarding wich color analyzer could be the right one for our company these days and in the near future. As you know, our company actually have 2 color corrections suites, a clasic da Vinci 888/CRT Sony PVM20L5 and a Film Master/ Sony BVM- A20F1U one Nitris HD with CRT Sony PVM20L5 and one Henry Quantel with CRT Sony PVM20L5 . Also a couple of Mac with Sony Luma series. We actually don´t have a color analyzer. I was checking products from some companies like Minolta/CA-100PLUS, Sencore CP6000 or OTC1000 and DK Technologies/ PM-5639 CRT/LCD kit. Actually we work mainly in SD, but moving slowly into HD and also we have the capabilities to do DI with the Film Master. Which of those color analyzers are used, can you give me an advise. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From willejames at googlemail.com Mon Nov 24 22:27:21 2008 From: willejames at googlemail.com (James Willett) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 22:27:21 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Panels with HDSDI Message-ID: Hi Terence and all, Speaking of LCD panels with HDSDI inputs have you seen the Eizo CG242W? Dual link in and out, 10bit panel - handles resolutions up to 2048x1080 (I think!) Due for release Dec/Jan time...looks rather interesting. www.eizo.com/press/releases/ Keep your eyes out for it... James James Willett London, UK Disclaimer: I don't work for or have any link to Eizo except for being a possible future customer.... From nunofduarte at gmail.com Tue Nov 25 01:22:34 2008 From: nunofduarte at gmail.com (Nuno Duarte) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 01:22:34 +0000 Subject: [Tig] best auto racing film ever (OT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In the same line of thought: http://www.getawayinstockholm.com/ Cheers, Nuno 2008/11/24 Graham Collett > 2021 subscribers as of November 2008 > Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG > www.flandersscientific.com > http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > Grand Prix .... Yes, that was grwat ... I don't tink I saw the 65mm > version though .. More like a 16mm bicycle print. > > Graham Collett > Sprockets(telecine) Ltd > www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > -- Yogi Berra - "I never said most of the things I said." From rob at cinelab.com Tue Nov 25 05:25:03 2008 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 00:25:03 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Rank Servo 588 to 10135A Compatible? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7EE0B67F-D627-4B21-9E93-7617C8C50221@cinelab.com> HI On a Unimedia Turbo (MK IIIB) which has a 588 servo rack with metaspeed, can I do a direct replacement with a newer 10135A Rack or do I need to do any framework wiring changes? Thanks -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Filmmaker Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From dlt at earthlink.net Tue Nov 25 15:05:52 2008 From: dlt at earthlink.net (David Tosh) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 07:05:52 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Rank Servo 588 to 10135A Compatible? In-Reply-To: <7EE0B67F-D627-4B21-9E93-7617C8C50221@cinelab.com> References: <7EE0B67F-D627-4B21-9E93-7617C8C50221@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <492C1450.2070302@earthlink.net> Robert Houllahan wrote: > On a Unimedia Turbo (MK IIIB) which has a 588 servo rack with metaspeed, > can I do a direct replacement with a newer 10135A Rack or do I need to > do any framework wiring changes? I'm thinking this is too challenging for the colorist quiz. Perhaps for bonus points... ;-) Happy Turkey Day --- David Tosh From bob at bluescreen.com Tue Nov 25 15:18:56 2008 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 07:18:56 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Panels with HDSDI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Speaking of LCD panels with HDSDI inputs have you seen the Eizo >CG242W? Dual link in and out, 10bit panel - handles resolutions up to >2048x1080 (I think!) Due for release Dec/Jan time...looks rather >interesting. > >www.eizo.com/press/releases/ I believe James was actually referring to the CG232W. The 242 is a computer video only monitor. Here is a direct link to the PDF: http://www.eizo.com/press/releases/pdf/CG232Wpr.pdf I have nothing to do with Eizo, but have been very impressed with their CRT computer monitors in the past. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From dario.brambilla at cintelitaly.it Tue Nov 25 16:34:24 2008 From: dario.brambilla at cintelitaly.it (Dario Brambilla) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:34:24 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Rank Servo 588 to 10135A Compatible? Message-ID: <004c01c94f1b$ad0ad790$0564a8c0@dario12b0bdcd2> Hi are you sure about the 10135 number I do not recol any board with that Number maybe I'm to yang for this but I'm with Cintel since 1988 Let me know more about and I can Help, can you tell me the name description board. Ciao Dario From rob at cinelab.com Tue Nov 25 20:18:53 2008 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:18:53 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Rank Servo 588 to 10135A Compatible? In-Reply-To: <492C1450.2070302@earthlink.net> References: <7EE0B67F-D627-4B21-9E93-7617C8C50221@cinelab.com> <492C1450.2070302@earthlink.net> Message-ID: > I'm thinking this is too challenging for the colorist quiz. Perhaps > for bonus points... ;-) This is of course the engineering supplement to the Colorist quiz, it can be answered with a 100% correct score by correctly answering one of the two following questions: What amount of force is generated (in newtons) by pushing a Unimedia modified Turbo out a 6th floor window? What fool is still keeping ancient junk of this nature running? -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Filmmaker Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From rob at colorist.org Tue Nov 25 20:27:46 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 22:27:46 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Rank Servo 588 to 10135A Compatible? In-Reply-To: References: <7EE0B67F-D627-4B21-9E93-7617C8C50221@cinelab.com> <492C1450.2070302@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <983BC7D8-8757-4502-B984-2C54FEA4B873@colorist.org> On Nov 25, 2008, at 10:18 PM, Robert Houllahan wrote: > This is of course the engineering supplement to the Colorist quiz, > it can be answered with a 100% correct score by correctly answering > one of the two following questions: > > What amount of force is generated (in newtons) by pushing a Unimedia > modified Turbo out a 6th floor window? If there were a mature fig tree growing at ground level, + or - 5 V, to catch the Unimedia modified Turbo, you'd then have a calculation in fig newtons. > What fool is still keeping ancient junk of this nature running? Brings to mind a Beatles song, involving a hill, and the guy at the top. Another question might be, for bonus points: who developed the Unimedia Turbo, what is he doing now, and did anyone know that it was originally the You Knee Media In the Groin, the last part being the name of the pub he bought with the proceeds of his buyout? -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at cinelab.com Tue Nov 25 23:05:15 2008 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:05:15 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Rank Servo 588 to 10135A Compatible? In-Reply-To: <983BC7D8-8757-4502-B984-2C54FEA4B873@colorist.org> References: <7EE0B67F-D627-4B21-9E93-7617C8C50221@cinelab.com> <492C1450.2070302@earthlink.net> <983BC7D8-8757-4502-B984-2C54FEA4B873@colorist.org> Message-ID: > Another question might be, for bonus points: who developed the > Unimedia Turbo, what is he doing now, and did anyone know that it > was originally > the You Knee Media In the Groin, the last part being the name of the > pub he bought with the proceeds of his buyout? Ohh Ohh I want a buyout! If I start buying up Spirit-1's and re painting them and adding a ground bar to them can I resell them for 3-5 times what I paid and then get bought out! Sweet... -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Filmmaker Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From willejames at googlemail.com Tue Nov 25 23:06:52 2008 From: willejames at googlemail.com (James Willett) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 23:06:52 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Panels with HDSDI Message-ID: Hi Bob - yep well spotted! I indeed meant CG232W not CG242W. Your quite correct the 232 has the set of dual link HDSDI sockets...and actually that has got me thinking -slightly off topic - has any equipment dropped the dual link connectivity and adopted the 3Gb SDI 'standard' yet? Dual link still seems to be fighting fit. All the best, James James Willett London, UK From peter.stansfield at wavecrest-systems.com Wed Nov 26 09:04:08 2008 From: peter.stansfield at wavecrest-systems.com (peter stansfield) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:04:08 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Rank Servo 588 to 10135A Compatible? In-Reply-To: <887C37D872DF4E408D5D2FFE391646EE@Frog> References: <7EE0B67F-D627-4B21-9E93-7617C8C50221@cinelab.com><492C1450.2070302@earthlink.net> <887C37D872DF4E408D5D2FFE391646EE@Frog> Message-ID: <0FC33987-89FF-4975-8EDC-C8B54678E126@wavecrest-systems.com> I do remember that the 'Unimedia person below' had a collection of Jackson Pollock originals in his office, and I don't in mine :)- And that was before the take over..... Peter Stansfield Wavecrest Systems Ltd On 25 Nov 2008, at 21:15, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > 2021 subscribers as of November 2008 > Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG > www.flandersscientific.com > http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > > On Nov 25, 2008, at 10:18 PM, Robert Houllahan wrote: > >> This is of course the engineering supplement to the Colorist quiz, >> it can be answered with a 100% correct score by correctly answering >> one of the two following questions: >> >> What amount of force is generated (in newtons) by pushing a >> Unimedia modified Turbo out a 6th floor window? > > If there were a mature fig tree growing at ground level, + or - 5 > V, to catch the Unimedia modified Turbo, you'd then have a > calculation in fig newtons. > >> What fool is still keeping ancient junk of this nature running? > > Brings to mind a Beatles song, involving a hill, and the guy at the > top. > > Another question might be, for bonus points: who developed the > Unimedia Turbo, what is he doing now, and did anyone know that it > was originally > the You Knee Media In the Groin, the last part being the name of the > pub he bought with the proceeds of his buyout? > > -- > Rob Lingelbach > rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > From weagles at bigpond.net.au Fri Nov 28 00:53:54 2008 From: weagles at bigpond.net.au (warren eagles) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 10:53:54 +1000 Subject: [Tig] Grain Reducers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C4E95BB-6B91-415A-B6CB-A0C08893D37E@bigpond.net.au> I have a client looking for SD-2K grain/noise reducer options. I know of the products from Digital Vision and Cintel but would like information on any newer hardware or software products. Thanks Warren Eagles Freelance Colourist Australia From ahauser at bigair.com.au Fri Nov 28 06:46:37 2008 From: ahauser at bigair.com.au (adrian hauser) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 17:46:37 +1100 Subject: [Tig] Grain Reducers In-Reply-To: <8C4E95BB-6B91-415A-B6CB-A0C08893D37E@bigpond.net.au> References: <8C4E95BB-6B91-415A-B6CB-A0C08893D37E@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: <35EDC327-B5BC-4A1F-AE4C-311FBD14A13A@bigair.com.au> Has anyone checked out the algolith hardware grain/noise reducers. also the teranex noise reducers are supposed to be OK as well. What is meant to be the Rolls Royce of grain/noise reducers. Adrian Hauser Cutting Edge - EQ Australia On 28/11/2008, at 11:53 AM, warren eagles wrote: > 2056 subscribers as of November 2008 > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk supports the TIG. > Reels: http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > I have a client looking for SD-2K grain/noise reducer options. > I know of the products from Digital Vision and Cintel > but would like information on any newer hardware or software products. > Thanks > > Warren Eagles > Freelance Colourist > Australia > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk Fri Nov 28 08:30:00 2008 From: grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:30:00 -0000 Subject: [Tig] Grain Reducers In-Reply-To: <8C4E95BB-6B91-415A-B6CB-A0C08893D37E@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: Film Systems - Aurora I rep them so wont say to much more Graham Collett Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of warren eagles Sent: 28 November 2008 00:54 To: tig at colorist.org Subject: [Tig] Grain Reducers 2056 subscribers as of November 2008 Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk supports the TIG. Reels: http://reels.colorist.org ==== I have a client looking for SD-2K grain/noise reducer options. I know of the products from Digital Vision and Cintel but would like information on any newer hardware or software products. Thanks Warren Eagles Freelance Colourist Australia _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk Fri Nov 28 11:05:28 2008 From: grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 11:05:28 -0000 Subject: [Tig] Grain Reducers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0F0EE80603324E3C88CE542B592EF529@Sprocket> Well it's a non- recursive noise reducer that takes SD/HD 422 or 444 and 2k hdsl (15fps) .. To save out and out selling on the tig the product details and spec is on the following page. http://www.telecine.com/aurora.html Honest Rob, I'm trying not to market it. Graham Collett Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: Warren Eagles [mailto:weagles at bigpond.net.au] Sent: 28 November 2008 10:54 To: Graham Collett Cc: tig at colorist.org Subject: Re: [Tig] Grain Reducers > Film Systems - Aurora > I rep them so wont say to much more I want to know more that is why I am asking... Seems like there is lots of interest in this topic On 28/11/2008, at 6:30 PM, Graham Collett wrote: > Film Systems - Aurora > I rep them so wont say to much more > > Graham Collett > Sprockets(telecine) Ltd > www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On > Behalf Of warren eagles > Sent: 28 November 2008 00:54 > To: tig at colorist.org > Subject: [Tig] Grain Reducers > > > 2056 subscribers as of November 2008 > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk supports the TIG. > Reels: http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > I have a client looking for SD-2K grain/noise reducer options. I > know of > the products from Digital Vision and Cintel but would like information > on any newer hardware or software products. Thanks > > Warren Eagles > Freelance Colourist > Australia > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > From weagles at bigpond.net.au Fri Nov 28 10:53:46 2008 From: weagles at bigpond.net.au (Warren Eagles) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 20:53:46 +1000 Subject: [Tig] Grain Reducers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Film Systems - Aurora > I rep them so wont say to much more I want to know more that is why I am asking... Seems like there is lots of interest in this topic (I have received off list answers) maybe we could open the marketing opportunity window a little? Warren On 28/11/2008, at 6:30 PM, Graham Collett wrote: > Film Systems - Aurora > I rep them so wont say to much more > > Graham Collett > Sprockets(telecine) Ltd > www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On > Behalf Of warren eagles > Sent: 28 November 2008 00:54 > To: tig at colorist.org > Subject: [Tig] Grain Reducers > > > 2056 subscribers as of November 2008 > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk supports the TIG. > Reels: http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > I have a client looking for SD-2K grain/noise reducer options. I > know of > the products from Digital Vision and Cintel but would like information > on any newer hardware or software products. Thanks > > Warren Eagles > Freelance Colourist > Australia > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 28 11:07:06 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 13:07:06 +0200 Subject: [Tig] DaVinci Gallery still export Message-ID: <05963F79-7011-44BD-BF48-AEFEF8763DFE@colorist.org> I'm often asked to send stills of session scene grades to clients, and do so using the DaVinci Gallery File Export function. I've tried TIFF, BMP, JPG-YUV, and JPG-RGB. There are some differences between each, but none come close to the saturation of the original Standard Def PAL image. I'll put up two examples on the TIG wiki, the first is exported as a JPG YUV, and the second is closer to what it was before export, as adjusted in Photoshop. http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Gallery_Export_Saturation_Difference Comments and help welcome. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 28 11:13:48 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 13:13:48 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Grain Reducers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 28, 2008, at 12:53 PM, Warren Eagles wrote: > Seems like there is lots of interest in this topic (I have received > off list answers) maybe we could open > the marketing opportunity window a little? What you could do Warren is summarize the reponses you received back to the list, in a clump or cluster, thereby satisfying everyone and not letting too much of that hot air through the window. :) (ps best to get permission from the private repliers to post) -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 28 11:39:49 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 13:39:49 +0200 Subject: [Tig] =?iso-8859-1?q?clich=E9s?= Message-ID: <2AA34ABE-45E0-4605-BD27-6290A4209240@colorist.org> There won't be many responses to TIG messages until Monday, when the US and (hopefully) Mumbai get back to work. Speaking just for myself, the speed ramps in commercials (and carrying over to series and features) have been a cliché for so long, they're quite unoriginal by now. Cliché trends: 1990s: Leslie Dektor pioneering the unSteadiCam, no rest for the motion. later 1990s: the Blue Period. 1990s late: Bleach Bypass. 2000s: The Green Period. 2000s, mid-to-late: Speed Ramps. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From kent at notch.ca Fri Nov 28 12:09:42 2008 From: kent at notch.ca (Kent McCormick) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 07:09:42 -0500 Subject: [Tig] DaVinci Gallery still export In-Reply-To: <05963F79-7011-44BD-BF48-AEFEF8763DFE@colorist.org> References: <05963F79-7011-44BD-BF48-AEFEF8763DFE@colorist.org> Message-ID: <492FDF86.4090208@notch.ca> Hi Rob On export make sure to "remove black stretch" if you have not! I find that gets me "closer" to reality. Kent McCormick Colorist Notch > From jfmann at optimum.net Fri Nov 28 12:56:16 2008 From: jfmann at optimum.net (Jim Mann) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 07:56:16 -0500 Subject: [Tig] DaVinci Gallery still export In-Reply-To: <492FDF86.4090208@notch.ca> References: <05963F79-7011-44BD-BF48-AEFEF8763DFE@colorist.org> <492FDF86.4090208@notch.ca> Message-ID: <000601c95158$b3cb3220$1b619660$@net> Kent McCormick wrote: >On export make sure to "remove black stretch" if you have not! I find >that gets me "closer" to reality. I always check the convert to Graphics Level box in the upper right corner. Regards, Jim Jim Mann Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist [ POSTWORKS ] NEW YORK 100 Avenue of Americas, 10th Floor New York, NY 10013 T 212 894 4000 C 516-250-0909 F 212 941 0439 http://www.postworks.com http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/User:Jim_Mann Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 28 12:58:11 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:58:11 +0200 Subject: [Tig] DaVinci Gallery still export In-Reply-To: <492FDF86.4090208@notch.ca> References: <05963F79-7011-44BD-BF48-AEFEF8763DFE@colorist.org> <492FDF86.4090208@notch.ca> Message-ID: <0D5FF741-FDCC-4537-9030-0CD5C7E251BB@colorist.org> On Nov 28, 2008, at 2:09 PM, Kent McCormick wrote: > > On export make sure to "remove black stretch" if you have not! I > find that gets me "closer" to reality. aha. interesting that the choices under "Extended Blacks" are: None Add Remove and "None" is the default. I used "Remove" and indeed the contrast is better. Saturation still way down though, is this your experience Kent? I'm not using the Windows monitor to compare, as its white point is set very high(blue) but instead have them on my more-or-less calibrated Mac, "for web images" according to Apple's calibration tool. I believe it's close to sRGB. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 28 13:04:42 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:04:42 +0200 Subject: [Tig] DaVinci Gallery still export In-Reply-To: <000601c95158$b3cb3220$1b619660$@net> References: <05963F79-7011-44BD-BF48-AEFEF8763DFE@colorist.org> <492FDF86.4090208@notch.ca> <000601c95158$b3cb3220$1b619660$@net> Message-ID: <8F9DE046-18B6-4B95-8D7A-568BD37EF72E@colorist.org> On Nov 28, 2008, at 2:56 PM, Jim Mann wrote: > > I always check the convert to Graphics Level box in the upper right > corner. Jim, which upper right corner, of the Export window or the Gallery window? I can't find it, so I might have an earlier version of software. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From owen at ywwg.com Fri Nov 28 18:15:09 2008 From: owen at ywwg.com (Owen Williams) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 13:15:09 -0500 Subject: [Tig] =?iso-8859-1?q?clich=E9s?= In-Reply-To: <2AA34ABE-45E0-4605-BD27-6290A4209240@colorist.org> References: <2AA34ABE-45E0-4605-BD27-6290A4209240@colorist.org> Message-ID: <1227896110.6802.2.camel@ywwg> On Fri, 2008-11-28 at 13:39 +0200, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > Cliché trends: > 1990s: Leslie Dektor pioneering the unSteadiCam, no rest for the > motion. > later 1990s: the Blue Period. > 1990s late: Bleach Bypass. > 2000s: The Green Period. > 2000s, mid-to-late: Speed Ramps. Stu pointed out (http://prolost.blogspot.com/2008/03/save-our-skins.html) and I think he's right on the money, that a current cliche is "overall blue frame with carrot-orange skintones." I just watched "Shooter" and it was the same story. Owen Williams -- Freelance Online Editor / Colorist 617.669.3020 linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/owengwilliams reel : http://www.vimeo.com/2076321 (password: 'demo') blog : http://ywwg.com/wordpress/?cat=36 imdb : http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1741110/ From sklein54 at earthlink.net Fri Nov 28 16:33:29 2008 From: sklein54 at earthlink.net (sklein54 at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:33:29 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [Tig] =?utf-8?q?clich=C3=A9s?= Message-ID: <3451776.1227890009910.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> But my favorite speed ramp right now is the animated one in the helicopter-jump shot near the beginning of the Pixar movie 'Bolt'. Make the extra effort to see this film in 3D. -----Original Message----- >From: Rob Lingelbach >Sent: Nov 28, 2008 3:39 AM >To: "tig at colorist.org Group" >Subject: [Tig] clichés > >2056 subscribers as of November 2008 >Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk supports the TIG. >Reels: http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > >There won't be many responses to TIG messages until Monday, when >the US and (hopefully) Mumbai get back to work. > >Speaking just for myself, the speed ramps in commercials (and carrying >over to series and features) have been a cliché for so long, they're >quite unoriginal by now. > >Cliché trends: > 1990s: Leslie Dektor pioneering the unSteadiCam, no rest for the >motion. > later 1990s: the Blue Period. > 1990s late: Bleach Bypass. > 2000s: The Green Period. > 2000s, mid-to-late: Speed Ramps. > >-- >Rob Lingelbach >rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >http://reels.colorist.org >http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From Craig.Nichols at technicolor.com Fri Nov 28 19:58:11 2008 From: Craig.Nichols at technicolor.com (Nichols Craig) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 11:58:11 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Grain Reducers Message-ID: <62DAB953E22F4F4C855BB91C6FABDDA5029EFEF2@NEVCSMAIL05.am.thmulti.com> One method on Spirit 2k, 4k, HD is Scream Plus (single board, 2nd gen, more range than orig), It can simplify workflow if used wisely in scanning as grain is managed on all subsequent versions made from scans. I currently work for Thomson, the mfg. There are may solutions, but this is one I have most experience using.. Craig Nichols Sr Support Eng -Digital Films Apps Thomson ----- Original Message ----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org To: Warren Eagles Cc: tig at colorist.org Sent: Fri Nov 28 03:13:48 2008 Subject: Re: [Tig] Grain Reducers 2056 subscribers as of November 2008 Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk supports the TIG. Reels: http://reels.colorist.org ==== On Nov 28, 2008, at 12:53 PM, Warren Eagles wrote: > Seems like there is lots of interest in this topic (I have received > off list answers) maybe we could open > the marketing opportunity window a little? What you could do Warren is summarize the reponses you received back to the list, in a clump or cluster, thereby satisfying everyone and not letting too much of that hot air through the window. :) (ps best to get permission from the private repliers to post) -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From sklein54 at earthlink.net Fri Nov 28 19:15:24 2008 From: sklein54 at earthlink.net (sklein54 at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:15:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Tig] =?utf-8?q?clich=C3=A9s?= Message-ID: <21644790.1227899724614.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Speaking of visual trends, I was reminded last week of something different that I saw last fall in the film '3:10 To Yuma'. Phedon Papamichael was the cinematographer. It seemed like many of the medium and close-up shots had a 'drift' in focus, racking into focus during actors' line reads and reactions. Did anyone else see this? I was fascinated by the possibility that this could have been intentional and in camera. The effect was dramatic. -----Original Message----- >From: Owen Williams >Sent: Nov 28, 2008 1:15 PM >To: Rob Lingelbach >Cc: "tig at colorist.org Group" >Subject: Re: [Tig] clichés > >2056 subscribers as of November 2008 >Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk supports the TIG. >Reels: http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > >On Fri, 2008-11-28 at 13:39 +0200, Rob Lingelbach wrote: >> Cliché trends: >> 1990s: Leslie Dektor pioneering the unSteadiCam, no rest for the >> motion. >> later 1990s: the Blue Period. >> 1990s late: Bleach Bypass. >> 2000s: The Green Period. >> 2000s, mid-to-late: Speed Ramps. > > >Stu pointed out >(http://prolost.blogspot.com/2008/03/save-our-skins.html) and I think >he's right on the money, that a current cliche is "overall blue frame >with carrot-orange skintones." > >I just watched "Shooter" and it was the same story. > >Owen Williams >-- >Freelance Online Editor / Colorist >617.669.3020 > >linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/owengwilliams >reel : http://www.vimeo.com/2076321 (password: 'demo') >blog : http://ywwg.com/wordpress/?cat=36 >imdb : http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1741110/ > > >_______________________________________________ >http://reels.colorist.org >http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 28 20:44:17 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 22:44:17 +0200 Subject: [Tig] =?iso-8859-1?q?clich=E9s?= In-Reply-To: <21644790.1227899724614.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <21644790.1227899724614.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6CE2A7F0-5C2D-4C44-85A8-76DBA5166EA7@colorist.org> On Nov 28, 2008, at 9:15 PM, sklein54 at earthlink.net wrote: > something different that I saw last fall in the film '3:10 To Yuma'. > Phedon Papamichael was the cinematographer. I'll have to grab that film for sure, to see what you're talking about Scott. I've observed, over the years, that there are 2 things a DP or Director needs: *a unique name, that might sound like Phaedon Pharmaceuticals. *a foreign accent. *leather pants, which the Director gets on the phone to his tailor during session, to say they're too tight. (this actually happened at POP in a session of mine in 1999; Director to remain nameless) *a unique style. I would say, only the last is relevant to the art. (I just worked with a Director with a most common name in the US, no accent, wearing usual clothes, who in The Ukraine is much sought-after; and he does excellent and original work) Rob (ps. it's too easy to be sarcastic sometimes :) ) -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 28 20:46:18 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 22:46:18 +0200 Subject: [Tig] =?iso-8859-1?q?clich=E9s?= In-Reply-To: <6CE2A7F0-5C2D-4C44-85A8-76DBA5166EA7@colorist.org> References: <21644790.1227899724614.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <6CE2A7F0-5C2D-4C44-85A8-76DBA5166EA7@colorist.org> Message-ID: <1E54A555-0B79-4411-95FC-7C7968917991@colorist.org> On Nov 28, 2008, at 10:44 PM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > I've observed, over the years, that there are 2 things a DP or > Director needs: > > *a unique name, that might sound like Phaedon Pharmaceuticals. > *a foreign accent. > *leather pants, which the Director gets on the phone to his tailor > during session, to > say they're too tight. (this actually happened at POP in a session > of mine in 1999; > Director to remain nameless) > *a unique style. > and before anyone mentions it, that's four things. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From kent at notch.ca Fri Nov 28 21:09:38 2008 From: kent at notch.ca (Kent McCormick) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 16:09:38 -0500 Subject: [Tig] DaVinci Gallery still export In-Reply-To: <0D5FF741-FDCC-4537-9030-0CD5C7E251BB@colorist.org> References: <05963F79-7011-44BD-BF48-AEFEF8763DFE@colorist.org> <492FDF86.4090208@notch.ca> <0D5FF741-FDCC-4537-9030-0CD5C7E251BB@colorist.org> Message-ID: <49305E12.6030102@notch.ca> I have never been able to get a "perfect" match, saturation or contrast, so clients get the standard disclaimer's. I do encourage all my clients to calibrate there displays and not to view the image's in there browsers :) The most challenging days are when stills get emailed to me for reference, then I send back stills to them and they split screen them :) display -> email -> display -> my eyes interpretation on monitor ->export -> email -> display Kent McCormick Colorist Notch Rob Lingelbach wrote: > > > and "None" is the default. I used "Remove" and indeed the contrast > is better. Saturation still way down > though, is this your experience Kent? > > I'm not using the Windows monitor to compare, as its white point is > set very high(blue) but instead have > them on my more-or-less calibrated Mac, "for web images" according to > Apple's calibration tool. I > believe it's close to sRGB. > > -- > Rob Lingelbach > rob at colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html > > > > > From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 28 21:17:18 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 23:17:18 +0200 Subject: [Tig] =?iso-8859-1?q?clich=E9s?= In-Reply-To: <1227896110.6802.2.camel@ywwg> References: <2AA34ABE-45E0-4605-BD27-6290A4209240@colorist.org> <1227896110.6802.2.camel@ywwg> Message-ID: On Nov 28, 2008, at 8:15 PM, Owen Williams wrote: > Stu pointed out > (http://prolost.blogspot.com/2008/03/save-our-skins.html) and I think > he's right on the money, that a current cliche is "overall blue frame > with carrot-orange skintones." there's enough energy and information in that URL to occupy a colorist for a solid weekend of outhouse work. extremely fascinating, from my point of view. -- Rob Lingelbach Colorist, Condor Digital Kiev rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From ted at tedlangdell.com Fri Nov 28 20:58:23 2008 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:58:23 -0800 Subject: [Tig] =?iso-8859-1?q?clich=E9s?= In-Reply-To: <6CE2A7F0-5C2D-4C44-85A8-76DBA5166EA7@colorist.org> References: <21644790.1227899724614.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <6CE2A7F0-5C2D-4C44-85A8-76DBA5166EA7@colorist.org> Message-ID: On Nov 28, 2008, at 12:44 PM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > (I just worked with a Director with a most common name in the US, no > accent, wearing usual clothes, who in The Ukraine is much sought- > after; and he does excellent and original work) Sounds like in the Ukraine, he has three of your four items: > *a unique name, > *a foreign accent. > *leather pants, which the Director gets on the phone to his tailor > during session, to say they're too tight. > *a unique style. You plan to keep him away from tailors with access to hides? Ted Ted Langdell Ted Langdell Creative Broadcast Services Marysville, CA Main: (530) 741-1212 tedlangdell.com. Storytelling through Broadcast Coverage and Creative Services since 1974 From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 28 21:23:27 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 23:23:27 +0200 Subject: [Tig] DaVinci Gallery still export In-Reply-To: <49305E12.6030102@notch.ca> References: <05963F79-7011-44BD-BF48-AEFEF8763DFE@colorist.org> <492FDF86.4090208@notch.ca> <0D5FF741-FDCC-4537-9030-0CD5C7E251BB@colorist.org> <49305E12.6030102@notch.ca> Message-ID: <740A6F2B-5C19-46F0-AE79-09565D4D924A@colorist.org> On Nov 28, 2008, at 11:09 PM, Kent McCormick wrote: > I have never been able to get a "perfect" match, saturation or > contrast, so clients get the standard disclaimer's. I do encourage > all my clients to calibrate there displays and not to view the > image's in there browsers :) > The most challenging days are when stills get emailed to me for > reference, then I send back stills to them and they split screen > them :) > display -> email -> display -> my eyes interpretation on monitor - > >export -> email -> display it's a mess. Thinking out loud, how would we be with a 'site' that rendered incoming images, with embedded color profiles, to other profiles desired by client, such that one could really make true comparisons? I suppose maybe it's an opportunity rather than a detriment. but I await with trepidation and heightened awareness Bob Friesenhahn's advice. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 28 21:32:41 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 23:32:41 +0200 Subject: [Tig] colorista Message-ID: <0B93ABDB-8280-423F-92DE-12BDAD019E43@colorist.org> in the interest of maintaining responsibility, can anyone comment on the following quote, from the Colorista website: "Designed by Stu Maschwitz from The Orphanage to deliver results just like those in high-end color correction suites" so, a little background if you can Owen? regards -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 28 21:39:59 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 23:39:59 +0200 Subject: [Tig] =?iso-8859-1?q?clich=E9s?= In-Reply-To: References: <21644790.1227899724614.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <6CE2A7F0-5C2D-4C44-85A8-76DBA5166EA7@colorist.org> Message-ID: On Nov 28, 2008, at 10:58 PM, Ted Langdell wrote: > You plan to keep him away from tailors with access to hides? perhaps he can hide his access to tailors, and so become the antithesis of the by-now-common Director. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From owen at ywwg.com Fri Nov 28 21:54:27 2008 From: owen at ywwg.com (Owen Williams) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 16:54:27 -0500 Subject: [Tig] colorista In-Reply-To: <0B93ABDB-8280-423F-92DE-12BDAD019E43@colorist.org> References: <0B93ABDB-8280-423F-92DE-12BDAD019E43@colorist.org> Message-ID: <1227909267.6802.25.camel@ywwg> On Fri, 2008-11-28 at 23:32 +0200, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > in the interest of maintaining responsibility, can anyone comment on > the following quote, from the Colorista website: > > "Designed by Stu Maschwitz from The Orphanage to deliver results just > like those in high-end color correction suites" > > so, a little background if you can Owen? > > regards I only used the plugin briefly as a demo, and it explains itself here: (http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/products/all/magic-bullet-colorista/features/) The idea is to provide high-precision (32-bit, floating point, etc) color correction inside final cut, avid, or after effects with an emphasis on simple, familiar tools (lift/gamma/gain, color wheels) and basic power windows. It's designed for filmmakers who want to do a good grade but can't afford a real DI or hate Apple Color. I believe Stu follows this mailing list, so he may pop in to add his 2 cents if I'm missing anything important. I have used and recommend Magic Bullet Looks, a similar plugin, but I'm not associated with the company. Owen -- Freelance Online Editor / Colorist 617.669.3020 linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/owengwilliams reel : http://www.vimeo.com/2076321 (password: 'demo') blog : http://ywwg.com/wordpress/?cat=36 imdb : http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1741110/ From jpo at prestodigital.ca Fri Nov 28 22:23:07 2008 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:23:07 -0700 Subject: [Tig] =?iso-8859-1?q?clich=E9s?= In-Reply-To: References: <21644790.1227899724614.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <6CE2A7F0-5C2D-4C44-85A8-76DBA5166EA7@colorist.org> Message-ID: > >> *a unique name, >> *a foreign accent. >> *leather pants, which the Director gets on the phone to his tailor >> during session, to say they're too tight. >> *a unique style. > There's a cliché at least hereabouts that "the further away you're from, the smarter you must be"... By the way, I draw your attention to the SMPTE 1957:41 stipulation in the "Elements of Color in Professional Motion Pictures" that stipulates that colour should be subordinate to the narrative and, in no circumstances, constitute 'a separate entity to compete with or detract from the dramatic content of the picture'. I draw this from Wendy Everett's "Questions of Colour in Cinema -- From Paintbrush to Pixel" (ISBN 978-3-03911-353-8 for those interested). In the same paragraph there is a discussion of the continuance of this attitude into the '70s, strictly adhering to the doctrine of "natural" rendition(whatever that might be?) and the invisibility of colour treatment. And I don't think there is any disputing the power of color to disrupt a narrative. The question is, is it way too po-mo to start attracting attention to it and either risk or underline suspension of disbelief? Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 28 23:24:45 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 01:24:45 +0200 Subject: [Tig] =?iso-8859-1?q?clich=E9s?= In-Reply-To: References: <21644790.1227899724614.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <6CE2A7F0-5C2D-4C44-85A8-76DBA5166EA7@colorist.org> Message-ID: On Nov 29, 2008, at 12:23 AM, Joe Owens wrote: > There's a cliché at least hereabouts that "the further away you're > from, the smarter you must be"... > > By the way, I draw your attention to the SMPTE 1957:41 stipulation > in the "Elements of Color in Professional Motion Pictures" that > stipulates that colour should be subordinate to the narrative and, > in no circumstances, constitute 'a separate entity to compete with > or detract from the dramatic content of the picture'. > > I draw this from Wendy Everett's "Questions of Colour in Cinema -- > From Paintbrush to Pixel" (ISBN 978-3-03911-353-8 for those > interested). In the same paragraph there is a discussion of the > continuance of this attitude into the '70s, strictly adhering to the > doctrine of "natural" rendition(whatever that might be?) > and the invisibility of colour treatment. And I don't think there > is any disputing the power of color to disrupt a narrative. The > question is, is it way too po-mo to start attracting attention to it > and either risk or underline suspension of disbelief? that's extraordinary. that there would be a a SMPTE paper on the relation of color to story. and your comments open up a wide window of discussion. In my humble opinion, in the best releases of feature films, the cinematography speaks for itself: the grading only enhances, or leaves true, the intentions of the cinematographer. And in the realm of commercials, today I found that my favorite truism came to be: the best effects are achieved in production. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From jfmann at optimum.net Sat Nov 29 01:23:27 2008 From: jfmann at optimum.net (Jim Mann) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 20:23:27 -0500 Subject: [Tig] DaVinci Gallery still export In-Reply-To: <8F9DE046-18B6-4B95-8D7A-568BD37EF72E@colorist.org> References: <05963F79-7011-44BD-BF48-AEFEF8763DFE@colorist.org> <492FDF86.4090208@notch.ca> <000601c95158$b3cb3220$1b619660$@net> <8F9DE046-18B6-4B95-8D7A-568BD37EF72E@colorist.org> Message-ID: <000001c951c1$14afbfd0$3e0f3f70$@net> Rob wrote: >Jim, which upper right corner, of the Export window or the Gallery window? >I can't find it, so I might have an earlier version of software. The Graphics Level box should be in the upper right corner of the Export window. I am running the most current version, so yes it is possible, it was not there in the earlier releases. Regards, Jim Jim Mann Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist [ POSTWORKS ] NEW YORK 100 Avenue of Americas, 10th Floor New York, NY 10013 T 212 894 4000 C 516-250-0909 F 212 941 0439 http://www.postworks.com http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/User:Jim_Mann Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.11/1817 - Release Date: 11/28/2008 8:17 AM From carl at stopp.se Sat Nov 29 17:59:54 2008 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 18:59:54 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Re stills from gallery Message-ID: <8F058067-03CF-4387-A354-C9ABE1377575@stopp.se> If 'VSR manager' in 2K is set to Extended Blacks off. Then it should be exported with 'None' from gallery. If it is set to ON. Then use remove. The Use Gfx levels popped up for me after an upgrade. Don't know what is does but it sounds good. Before I know that exported stills from gallery had 'video 100% clip whites' at 235. So of I sent it to a client there referens would have higher whites then my stills even though I was at a 100. Haven't checked it with 'use gfx levels on' but I would think its there for lifting 235 up to 255. Rob... An even more enoying thing is when you take a ref still from a client and import it into gallery. When its displayd on the grade monitor the blacks are at -10% and whites at 110% Try to match that and still be legal. /Carl Carl Skaf -sent from mobile device ___________________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 22