[Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame

Micheletti, Bob (NBC Universal) bob.micheletti at nbcuni.com
Sat Oct 11 02:28:02 BST 2008


I have a shrinkage gage that I would be willing to loan if someone needs
one in the LA area.  It's a little heavy and an awkward shape (about
3'long) to ship.

Bob Micheletti
Engineer 
Universal Pictures
Over the hill from Hollywood 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tig-bounces at colorist.org 
> [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Ted Langdell
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:03 PM
> To: Telecine Internet Group
> Subject: Re: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame
> 
> 1991 subscribers as of September 2008
> Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk
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>  ====
> 
> 
> Hi, Jim and the other responders...
> 
> I've been passing your comments on to our AMIA member 
> colleague for whom I posted the original message this morning.
> 
> I had advised him of the AMIA shrinkage gauge (a loan-item for member
> use) and to also try estimating with the 100-perf method.  
> Haven't heard back about whether he's done that.
> 
> Jim, I appreciate the depth of your comments here.
> 
> Would an HD flying spot scanner by either our friendly UK or 
> US vendors be likely to offer a solution?
> 
> Are there other scanners... Imagica, Genesis, (insert 
> suggested make and model here) that are worth considering?
> 
> I'll pass this on and see whether there's a 100-perf test 
> being done.  I'm curious to know just how short or narrow the 
> film has become.
> 
> Again, thanks to all who have replied so far.
> 
> Ted
> 
> On Oct 9, 2008, at 8:59 PM, Jim Mann wrote:
> 
> > Ted,
> > If it is a "Classic Spirit" and assuming that your material has not 
> > progressed passed stage II decomposition. (All nitrate film 
> is now at 
> > least Stage II.) I do not think you will blow up. The flash 
> point of a 
> > stage II nitrate film is about that of a piece of paper.
> > As Mr. Lovejoy said do not put Nitrate on a new Spirit HD, 
> Spirit2K or 
> > 4K. I have transferred Nitrate on a Spirit classic....I do not 
> > recommend it. The film sheds dust that gets into the condenser lens 
> > and filter wheel resulting in a machine that can get so covered, it 
> > will not FPN.  It also results in a pissed off engineer, who has to 
> > clean up the mess.
> >
> > The Stages of Nitrate film (as per me and the NPS)
> >
> > Stage II Amber color, Nitric acid smell, Negative may be a little 
> > sticky. Base gets brittle. Emulsion gets soft.
> > Stage III Amber color is deeper, Nitric gas bubbles form 
> between the 
> > base and emulsion, The stink gets stronger. Film base is 
> very brittle.
> > Stage IV Sticky froth, bubbles, film sticks to everything. 
> Smells like 
> > puke. Very strong puke. Let some of this stuff rub on to 
> your clothing 
> > then go through one of those bomb sniffing machines at the 
> > airport...good luck.
> > Stage V....don't worry you'll just know.
> >
> > I can also tell you that shrinkage can vary within a roll. 
> As you get 
> > deeper into the roll horizontal shrinkage can increase, 
> resulting in 
> > the sprocket wheel just catching the inside of the perfs 
> and ripping 
> > the outer edges off the brittle film. Trust me I know. Ted, I think 
> > you're lucky your jumping out of frame. It means the film has not 
> > become too brittle.
> >
> > The Spirit has a gentle film transport but....you would need custom 
> > sprocket wheel to run your film.
> >
> > "Well, pretty damned shrunken. "
> >
> > The AMIA offers a gauge to assess the percentage of shrinkage. At 
> > http://www.amianet.org/resources/guides/shrinkage_gauge.pdf
> >
> > Or for a rough idea use a normal 35mm leader and count 100 
> perfs and 
> > mark it with a sharpie. Then line it up with your film. If 
> at Perf 100 
> > your film is a 98 perfs then your 2%, 97 perfs then your 3% 
> and so on.
> > Good Luck
> > Jim
> >
> >
> > Jim Mann
> > Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist
> > [ POSTWORKS ] NEW YORK
> >
> 
> Ted Langdell
> Ted Langdell Creative Broadcast Services Marysville, CA
> Main:   (530) 741-1212
> 
> tedlangdell.com. Storytelling through Broadcast Coverage and 
> Creative Services since 1974
> 
> 
> 
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